What do you think of the performance instruments?

[yofish]

I am a Pro Edition user. I bought VSL for the academy where I teach. The VSL library is (as you all know [:)] an outstanding product am amazed how realistic you can make it sound.
I would go as far as to say that it’s possible to make musical performances that are as god or better as with “real” human musicians (depends on the type of music). What I especially like is the possibility to get rhythmical performances witch is close to impossible with real (large) ensembles.

I’m in the process of writing a manual on how to use VSL musically and instrumentaly, for my students. VSL is such a huge library and so far I have only used parts of it. I would hate to say something that is misleading, so if you think I’m wrong please lead me in the right direction [:)]
I would welcome any comments on the following thoughts.

About the performances instruments.
First, when I started, I thought that the performance instrument was the ones that would make a difference (compared to other libraries that didn’t have Performance instrument).

The legato and repetition instruments were of special importance, I thought. After working with VSL I must say that the repetition and legato instruments are of more limited use. The legato instruments are not very usable when it comes to fast or even medium tempos.
I tend to use the legato instruments only on solo instruments. On stringsensambles I work with 0sus instruments, adding small amounts of staccato instrument from time to time.
The legato brass instruments is the ones that gives the most authentic response. I love the trumpet. I havent done many of the wind instruments yet.

The repetition instruments are a big disappointment to me, but then I have only worked with the string versions. A have gotten the viola instrument to sort of work (sound authentic….) but that’s the only one, cello is by far the worst, almost unusable……. Tempo seams to be an issue her If one sticks to the original tempo +15-20% it seams to work (well almost) but faster tempos.....[:(]

The alternation instrument works better for repetition phrases…In fact I think that the alternation possibility works pretty well on repetition notes.

What do you think about this, do you disagree?

[cm]

yofish, obviously we have still not found an appropriate way to communicate the principle of repetitions as they are designed in VSL.
you will not be able to play them properly _slower_ as labeled (in the sense they are mapped)
you might find this lines herb posted usefull to to start looking at the repetitions with another approach
christian

[yofish]

Cm, obviously you haven’t understand my post [:)]
I wrote 15+20% by that I meant:

plus (faster) up to 15 to 20%

The link you send explains it al and I have read that a looong time ago [:)] I think I have read most of the posts about the repetition tool……
In fact I even read the repetition manual [:)]

My q was more in the direction of how users us it an IF they us it.

[cm]

yofish, don't know why, but i've read it as +15/-20% - sorry for the misunderstanding [:O]ops:
christian

[mike harper]

@yofish said:

The legato instruments are not very usable when it comes to fast or even medium tempos.

on this i would agree but my experience is still limited. i find myself
having issues with fast passages w/ legato.

[Jean]

@yofish said:

The legato instruments are not very usable when it comes to fast or even medium tempos.

on this i would agree but my experience is still limited. i find myself
having issues with fast passages w/ legato.Using which instruments?

[mike harper]

strings mostly hard to say at this point-

[Jean]

@mike harper said:

strings mostly hard to say at this point-

The legato strings can indeed be somewhat problematic when trying to play faster lines. I don't have the pro edition, but it has a legato string grace patch I think which could resolve at least some of those problems.

The same goes for other instruments, the legato grace files allow for very fast lines.

[evan evans]

Just to answer the topic question:

I think they are what made me buy VSL, and they are what makes me love VSL.

[:)]

Evan Evans

[forester]

It might be nice to have an alternate performance legato tool that could use the non-performance sus and 0sus samples to automatically generate legato lines. That could provide a usable and possibly sometimes preferable alternative to the performance samples.

I've found too, that performance legato tends to work well only on longer phrases. Could be because it's harder to nail the time threshold at faster playing speeds. Maybe if you do more programming instead of playing you don't get that problem. Or if you use the tool on already sequenced phrases, but I haven't tried that yet.

[Brennan]

@yofish said:

The legato instruments are not very usable when it comes to fast or even medium tempos.

on this i would agree but my experience is still limited. i find myself
having issues with fast passages w/ legato.

On the contrary, I find the legato instruments great for fast passages (much better than the normal sustains). Make sure you are using perf-GRACE instruments for fast legato playing and Perf-legato for longer lines. My only wish is that the legato instruments crossfaded into looped sustains because the target notes are often short (especially in perf-grace).

-Brennan

[mathis]

@forester said:

It might be nice to have an alternate performance legato tool that could use the non-performance sus and 0sus samples to automatically generate legato lines. That could provide a usable and possibly sometimes preferable alternative to the performance samples.

That´s a very good idea! Would save lots of editing!

[jrm1]

Is anyone else having this problem?: the Perf Grace notes patches (eg the violins piano patch) aren't triggering consistently in the perf tool. LEGATO is selected in the channel menu. Can't figure out why the patch doesn't perform the same way as the 'main' perf legato ones.

[herb]

For all string (and brass instruments), the grace notes were only recorded for minor and major second.
Therefor the largest intervall you can perform with the legato tool mapping is a minor third. (this should enable you to perform minor sharp scales).

The woodwinds do have grace notes for all intervall steps (up to an octave).
Therefore these instruments do have the same characteristics as normal legato instruments.

best
Herb

[NG1]

@Another User said:

The repetition instruments are a big disappointment to me, but then I have only worked with the string versions. A have gotten the viola instrument to sort of work (sound authentic….) but that’s the only one, cello is by far the worst, almost unusable……. Tempo seams to be an issue her If one sticks to the original tempo +15-20% it seams to work (well almost) but faster tempos.....

I tend to use the repetition samples by rendering them as an audio track within my sequencer and then cutting it up or time stretching as needed. Obviously the more different note pitches you need, the more rendered tracks one needs. But I find it so much easier to make use of these recordings working with the source audio as opposed to with the midi tool. For pieces with a large amount of same note repetitions, it is defintely worth the effort.

[yofish]

Jrm! and Herb
Violine performance grace note. using the legato performance tool????

Dosent say anyting about this in the manual (as far as I can see...? ).
At this end it seems like the grace instrument is a Thru instrument.

But transposing a semitone up and using the grace 01 instrument for fats legato lines ,sort of messes up the intonation in a way that remind me of tired musicians that play sort of sloppy..... quite usfull [:)]
Thanks Brennan.

[herb]

There are normal "grace" mappings, here the starting note is part of the samples, and these mappings have to be used without the performance tool (legato mode).

And there are the "perf-leg_grace" mappings.
Here the grace notes are prepared for the performance tool.

best
Herb