If I have an instance with two patches that have a cell crossfade, does this result in higher polyphony, after optimizing, if I am using the crossfade as a switch, either all the way up or down? The reduction in RAM seems to suggest that the silent samples have been removed, but i always assumed that a crossfade simply turned down the volume of a sample that was still present, and so it would reduce available polyphony even if it wasn't sounding. But the optimizing seems to kick those silent samples out.
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crossfading and polyphony
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Thanks Paul. I meant though the cell crossfading. Is it desirable to use a switch instead of a crossfade, in order to preserve polyphony?
Because on a crossfade instrument made up of two patches is it four notes playing, even though the crossfade is all the way down or up and only one of those instruments is playing. At least I think it is.
What would be an easy way to make an instant switch between these two cells, BESIDES using crossfade? A switch that would act like velocity switching (which I know does preserve polyphony over a velocity crossfade) but was controllable with an assignable controller.
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hi William,
I am waaay late, but my excuse is simple: just started using the VI-[:)]
So if your problem's not solved yet (small chance I guess), here's perhaps another useful way to swith between cells without actually X-fading:
Use the pedal. But if it's a sustain pedal (CC64), change it to CC4, then it becomes a pedal switch instead.
Although I'm not sure if it really helps with the polyphony, at least the switch is instantaneous.
Kind regards,
Alex
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thanks Alex, that's a good idea. I have started to use crossfading only for things that should be blended or overlapped, and making matrix keyswitches for everything else. Unless I'm mistaken, if you play a note in one matrix, the presence of instruments in the other matrices does NOT increase your polyphony the way an instrument in a crossfaded cell DOES. Is that right Paul? I have not really tested it but it seems to be true...
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Hi William,
I'm almost 100% sure that cell crossfade would use 2x the polyphony.
The reason is that both samples (cells) would have to be triggered and ready to go
just in case you initiate the crossfade.
I'd be interested in knowing if Velocity X-Fading works the same way once turned on.
How else could they fade in a sample or velocity sample if it has not been triggered with the audible sample?
It has to have been triggered with your initial note on and the silent sample is waiting to be crossfaded.
I asked if VSL could put a polyphony counter on the VI months back and they said each interface can handle 64 voices. Fine, but it would be nice to know how many are being used at any give moment.
Anyone at VSL willing to comment?
In GigaStudio, if you had an instrument that used the mod wheel to create a crescendo for instance, you have to layer p and f samples on top of each other and assign the mod wheel to switch (crossfade) between them.
Well, it took 2 voices for a single stereo sample but when you loaded a layered
instrument like that described above it took 4 voices because there were 2 stereo samples being triggered at the same time.
Hope that clarifies.
David
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With Velocity Xfade active you have to multiply the number of voices you are playing with the number of velocities of the loaded patch (this info is labeled in the patch display - the maximum is four).
A four-part chord with four velocities gives 16 voices.
With release samples active you will trigger 32 voices at each note off.
A similiar patch loaded in the second cell crossfade slot adds the same amout of voices, so you will get 64 voices.
If you perform now overlaps between two different chors you would already max out the polyphony.
best
Herb
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@herb said:
With Velocity Xfade active you have to multiply the number of voices you are playing with the number of velocities of the loaded patch (this info is labeled in the patch display - the maximum is four).
A four-part chord with four velocities gives 16 voices.
With release samples active you will trigger 32 voices at each note off.
A similiar patch loaded in the second cell crossfade slot adds the same amout of voices, so you will get 64 voices.
If you perform now overlaps between two different chors you would already max out the polyphony.
best
Herb
Thanks for your answer Herb!
Thats how I figured the VI handled polyphony.
Is there any chance of lifting the polyphony limit to 96 voices in the future?
That would allow for the overlaps you mentioned above. Of course that would create more of a CPU load but with the faster computers today I think its reasonable.
David
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Aha, that answers my question posted on a different thread today, thank you Herb! I had dropouts playing chords with the 04 Strings_sus_vib patch.
They have 4 velocities, so I figured only 16 voices were used.
But I didn't account for the release samples. Indeed, that makes 32 voices,
and when hitting another chord immediately thereafter > max out> dropout.
Good thing is that when exporting to audio, there seemed to be no dropouts, the resulting wav file was ok.
Nevertheless, I have to second David's notion: a bit more headroom would be a great improvement! To an already fantastic instrument, I dare add.
All the best,
Alex
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Yes, I think it only makes sense that if the VI can load RS samples and multi-Velocity layers that chew up polyphony that we have enough polyphony to perform our arrangements without haveing to mixdown.
I think that VSL's take on this is that we must orchestrate (maybe computerize is a better word here) our music properly. Meaning, if you load a Vln section patch you should'nt really be playing a 4-note chord because that would be like 14 players each playing all 4 notes.
Thats 56 violins, and just not realistic. Plus, thats what is eating up the polyphony.
I see that point of view and it makes sense in a traditional, by the book arrangement. But, a lot of users of VSL products are film and media composers who make choices based on sound-color and emotional impact over what is practical or correct orchestrationally, unless the music will actually be performed by players.
I don't care if its 56 violins or 14 as long as it expresses what is needed for the project. Oh, and that the director/producer likes it [:)]
But, if we computerized the music correctly we might not have any issues with polyphony.
Even still, with features like cell crossfade...it is still possible to run out of polyphony even when a piece is computerized properly therefore I think a bump in polyphony would be a much welcome enhancement.
Of course, even if it was not increased VSL VI is capable of astounding feats and I am grateful for what I am already able to do compared to just a few years ago.
David
