Christian (or anyone else who might know something about this):

I'm wondering if you might have thoughts about the question I asked in this thread and in a thread devoted to this subject - - it seems possible that one could simultaneously run the VI plugins and the VI Standalone and thus get two memory blocks from the same computer - if you have sufficient RAM.

If this is possible it would mean, at least in some circumstances, the potential elimination of one slave computer. However it is not obvious (at least to me) how one would route MIDI output from a sequencer like Logic to the VI standalone and how one would route audio from the standalone back into Logic. (On this latter subject, I've wondered if one might use Cycling 74's SoundFlower - choosing SoundFlower as the audio output in the VI Standalone and then making Soundflower the input on an aux channel within Logic.) I would be most appreciative of any ideas regarding this.

One note: Syncrosoft keeps running when the dongle is switched out, but to load any new VI sound, the key is queried again and must be re-attached.

I looked into this several months ago when the golden apple was multiple EXS instances on two computers without buying another Logic license. And that didn't work at all because Logic constantly monitors the status of the key.

As Christian mentioned, these devices don't "share," they switch. This protects two printers from downloading information at the same time. So I looked for USB devices that keep connections "live" to multiple computers simultaneously, and that was a dead-end.

But jbm, it remains an intriguing thought. "Auto printer mode supports First Come First Served." Does this mean that a VI key would be "live" to whichever computer needed it (when loading, for example)? The web page indicates that special printers speak this language. What would a VI key do?

Perhaps this could be test-run more easily with a cheap, simple USB switch, like a two-port Belkin. And really, all the switch does is spare one the physical task of swapping the key -- which, with USB extension cords, could be pretty easy.

But I am concerned that, if it's this easy and viable, why has it not been discussed before? Why wasn't it a sidebar in gear magazine or at least a thread on one of the forums? I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm just voicing a curiosity.

I think that finding a another solution for the larger sections would be great. I just upgraded to the full VI and I'm already finding this to be an issue as well. How to make better use of the memory while working around the licenses is difficult. I would like to request a solo string slave license.

plowman, as far as my research turned out there is nothing like a *switched* usb-port, mainly because of the *serial nature* of the usb-protocol.
in case it seems to work here and there please be aware that the key is _not_ only needed when loading patches. once you have received a license error my experience is that you have to close all related applications and probably even reboot the computer.

you do experiments on your own risk and anything related is not supported, might actually under certain circumstances violate the license agreement.
christian

@cm said:

in case it seems to work here and there please be aware that the key is _not_ only needed when loading patches. once you have received a license error my experience is that you have to close all related applications and probably even reboot the computer.

you do experiments on your own risk and anything related is not supported, might actually under certain circumstances violate the license agreement.
christian

Yes, and I should mention that my experiments were done quite innocently... just trying to customize my setup for a new score. With the current system, the license is basically for the package (i.e., "Solo Strings"), not for the individual instruments. So the key authorizes the package, and each package is currently limited to one machine. Kind of a shame, but oh well... I guess I'm in the market for another machine now.

cheers, All.

J.

I guess the point I've been trying to make is that it would be extremely useful to able to run the standalone version of VI simultaneously with a host program and the plugin version of VI because then you could potentially run 5GB of samples on one Mac - - which would make the issue of being confined to running a huge library like the solo string library on one machine less problematic. I simply can't figure out how to achieve this at the moment with Logic and again I appeal to anyone who has experience with doing this to share information with other users. I think I remember that Nick Batzdorf mentioned doing something like this shortly after the Viena Instruments were first released.... I'm hoping that if this proves not to be possible with the current version of the Vienna Instruments software that it will be something that will be implemented in a forthcoming version.

"as far as my research turned out there is nothing like a *switched* usb-port"

USB port switches are common, so we probably have some confusion of terms. Perhaps you meant "shared," which I take to mean, the USB peripheral would be seen by two or more computers at the same time. It makes sense that such a device could not exist given the USB's serial nature.

"once you have received a license error my experience is that you have to close all related applications and probably even reboot the computer."

I loaded Logic and its VI's, then unplugged the key, then tried to load a new VI sound and got the error. With "cancel" or "retry" still available in the error window, I reattached the key and successfully loaded. I did that again, only I canceled out of the error window. I couldn't get back into a VI. Logic crashed.

The organic solution is a drag-and-drop license system where individual instruments could be assigned to different keys. I have high hopes that VSL will do this someday. I consider it inevitable as multi-computer systems become the norm.

my usage of the term *switched* was meant to describe the difference to the usage of *shared* for the device mentioned ... technological speaking usb would work like a hub (signal on input is repeated on all outputs), that's why in early days (network-)hubs have often been refered as *repeaters*
if your application had not to be closed you're lucky (in this situation) - my experience has been the oposite ...
drag&drop licenses would be nice to have, in a certain way the license control center provides this functionality with the transfer license wizard.
christian

VSL could also offer two licences per collection [:)] This is rather common in the world of samples...

Jerome

.. to find them again on ebay a few weeks later? sorry to say, but this is not an option. our experience with the sample library product line was too bad regarding a too liberal license policy.
christian

stevesong,

I have actually tried running the standalone beside Logic. I got a very strange output from the standalone when I did this, but I can't remember which audio driver I was using... I have a feeling I was just passing the audio directly to my card. Anyway, I got what sounded like an error with the sample rate. I'll try it again today and let you know. Interestingly, I did notice that the memory of the standalone did appear to be self-contained, even though I seem to remember some people saying it still used the vsl-server. I'll try again today anyway.

cheers,

J.

@cm said:

.. to find them again on ebay a few weeks later? sorry to say, but this is not an option. our experience with the sample library product line was too bad regarding a too liberal license policy.
christian

Hi cm,

really sorry to hear that. In the end though, honest users are being penalized because of the dishonest actions of a few. :/

Jbm:

Thanks very much for responding. One thing I've thought of is of using Cycling 74's Soundflower (freeware) to direct the audio output of the standalone to an aux track in Logic. Haven't tried this as I know little about Soundflower. If that worked then the question would be how to get MIDI to work in this context. Would one make the Standalone an AMS Object? How would one direct MIDI output to it from Logic - would one create it as a MIDI instrument within Logic or define it as an external instrument, etc. ?? What about using Plogue Bidule on the same machine with Logic - woud the plugin inhabi the same memory block as that occupied by the plugins hosted within Logic? I'd me most appreciative of your thoughts. Thanks.

You've probably found the answers to most of these questions already, but yes, any plugin, in any host, will run under the vsl-server. So they're all sharing the same memory space.

J.

"in a certain way the license control center provides this functionality with the transfer license wizard."

Absolutely. What I should have said was, VSL users are frustrated by the bulk grouping of instruments. I was envisioning a drag-and-drop where individual instruments could be assigned per key. Christian, is there a technical reason why VSL couldn't allow for that?

"Repeater." Yeah, that's a good word.

Each collection consists of only one standard licence (it doesn't matter how many instruments are included in one collection), and it's not possible to duplicate or split a single license.

best
Herb

Herb:

This is why I'm trying to figure out how the VI standalone might be used along with the VI plug-in on the same computer (Mac) so that one could address an additional 2.5GB of samples. Since the standalone appears designed for live performance, it is not immediately obvious how one might send MIDI data to the standalone from a sequencer (e.g. Logic) and route its audio back into the sequencer's aux channels - - any suggestions? The Solo String Library is so large that it is difficult to see how one might use all its samples simultaneously on one computer. However, one could make use of the standalone in this case then it would minimize the problem of the one license per library section. If this is not possible with the present version of the standalone, perhaps you might consider making it easier to do in an upcoming version? The alternative would be to freeze tracks I guess. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Stephen

With the Symphonic Choir from East West the Word builder app doesn't open as a plug-in in Logic (it has to be used in stand-alone mode)

There is a tutorial on the EastWest site about how that is done. Now I don't know if the same work round they illustrate could be adapted to get a standalone VI instrument to fire from a Logic arrange page but I did get my Logic songs to play the EastWest Wordbuilder app and for the audio to route out with Logic's audio.

Julian

This licence non-splitting is a big mistake by VSL. Many people will want to mix and match Violin sounds from all the Violin Collections. Because Solo and Chamber Strings only have one licence each, it means that you have to run both those Collections and both Orchestral Strings from the same computer. There is no no option to run Violins/Violas from one and Cello/Basses from another. Let's hope that the powers that be see sense and change the Solo and Chamber Strings to have two licences each. Of course it will all get worse with the Appassionata Strings. Let's hope that this Collection follows the Orchestral Strings pattern of 2 Collections.

DG

same problems here ...

4 pc´s and a MAC and no way to "share" samples. the pc´s (incl. 3 gb switch) are often not big enough to host all samples i need ... no way to transfer a part of it to another computer ...

just a thought:

if it isn´t possible to split the libraries and to give away a second licence (i understand this!), maybe a solution could be to have a MASTER KEY for the whole library and personalized slave keys, which only can run in the entirely network, where the master key is shown ...

thomas