Harmony resulting from linear writing....

[svonkampen]

I have questions:

When scoring, I often encounter dissonances that I dig....but then later I view them as "wrong", and tend to correct them (back to vanilla....yuck) I need to learn to trust my inner ear!

Ok......

Quote: "I think of it strictly linearly. What goes over it is probably counterpoint, but it's another linear line written over it. I don't particularly go at it harmonically-it's what you hear in your head." - Jerry Goldssmith

Quote: "The lines have their own individuality. They cause dissonances here and there." -Alex North


What does this mean?


So let's say I lay down a vague, nebulous, bassline........Now I play a viola line over it......And then mute it (in other words don't listen to it on purpose)

Now...I play the bassline again, but now record a violin line over the bass..

Now I rewind and play back the results of violas, violins and bass playing back together.....

And construct / deconstruct from there?

Would this be a good way to "force" my ear OUT of wanting to write conventional harmony, yet maintain some sort of structured dissonance since both viola and violin were written to the same bassline?

Is this what linear writing is all about? (I googled "Harmony resulting from linear writing"....found nothing)

I'm looking for ways to KILL my predictability.

Here is a link, click on "Ennio_Linear?"

http://homepage.mac.com/WebObjects/FileSharing.woa/wa/default?user=svonkampen&templatefn=FileSharing1.html&xmlfn=TKDocument.1.xml&sitefn=RootSite.xml&aff=consumer&cty=US&lang=en

Towards the end of this cue there seem to be a lot of dissonances...Is this an example of a linear-harmonic writing approach?

Excuse my ignorance......


Thanx,

SvK

[svonkampen]

What makes that cue for me is the beauty and predictability of the almost sappy flute motif never ending....but the harmony surrounding it becomes almost disturbing / abstract........thereby eliminating the dreaded "vanilla".

SvK

[mathis]

Very interesting example you post here. But the dissonant harmony doesn't come from linear writing in this Ennio piece but from multiple keys, it is poly-tonal. The flute melody has its key, the strings have another tonal center and then there's that disturbing electronic sound, again another tonal center.

I suggest studying the Renaissance masters, especially Machaut if you're interested in weird harmonies as a result of linear counterpoint. The most weird harmonies. however, I have heard in Serbian folk music (I once could hear to some really rare stuff.)

Coming back to what you write: I wouldn't mute the viola line. The violin line should be thought of against both the other lines. Only the bass as a reference doesn't say much. Ideally, in counterpoint, one develops all lines simultaniously.

Having said all that, it is amazing ( especially in orchestral music) how much the line is more important than the harmony. If you can hear a line as an entity, the context is minor important. That's actually, what Ennio confirms here. Think of Gestalt.
B.t.w., Steven Scott Smalley said so in his seminar, too, if I remember correctly.

[mathis]

I love your GloomA piece, b.t.w.

[Angelo Clematide]

@svonkampen said:

Quote: "I think of it strictly linearly. What goes over it is probably counterpoint, but it's another linear line written over it. I don't particularly go at it harmonically-it's what you hear in your head." - Jerry Goldssmith

Quote: "The lines have their own individuality. They cause dissonances here and there." -Alex North

What does this mean?

You can take it literal, he plays, composes or improvises lines, one after another for the purpose that they sound simultaneous at the end. To judge if you like the result is soley up to you.

"I don't particularly go at it harmonically" means he composes horizontally and linear. He doesn't care at the very moment what is produced in vertical harmony. The horizontal flow is important and pushes the expiration of time, similar to "linear rhythm" .

"The lines have their own individuality" means that each line solo could stand as valuable line. Similar to polyphony, where each voice is a melody.

"They cause dissonances here and there" you can produce as many dissonances as you like, it is rather difficult to not produce any. This depends also on how many lines in what octave room sound.

I couldn't download the example: "Ennio_Linear?"

.

[dpcon]

@svonkampen said:

So let's say I lay down a vague, nebulous, bassline

Perfectly wrong approach. Write a very strong melodic line (in the top voice for example.) The fact that this line is strong and can stand all by itself is what will allow you to write another melodic line against it (that should also be strong and stand on it's own.) This second line can be very consonant to very dissonant against the first depending on your objective. You could have these lines sounding consonant together and than do strange things in the bass that change the character of the upper voices: this bass line should be strong. The remaining third voice can move slower and serve as a harmonic backdrop linked with either the bass or the upper voices or go back and forth or be another independent strong line.

A safe or strong way of doing linear writing is to write the top line and then the bass against it. If these are strong together you have half the battle won and then can write your inner voices to work with this basic outline.

Listen to Bartok's Music For Strings Percussion and Celeste (1st movement fuge) if you want to hear linear writing that is generally dissonant but also lands on beautiful consonant vertical harmonies. Gorgeous masterpiece.

[svonkampen]

dave,

Thanx ....

I understand


BArtoK: Thats the piece Horner ripped off for ALIENS

SvK

[Chasingthesun_jeff]

I had to reply to this as this is a style in which I most often write in. I figured I'd put my 2 cents in.

Personally I really enjoy a more floating fluid feel with game music and letting things just flash color on and off you at times. I normally write key melodic motif's and actually write my less intense lines first based apon key melodies. From there I'll write my top feature melodies. Its a bit odd I know but here's an example of my work from doing this type of writing.

I hope it makes sense what I said lol its early!

www.chasingthesunproductions.com/explore1.mp3

[jbm]

@svonkampen said:

So let's say I lay down a vague, nebulous, bassline

Perfectly wrong approach. Write a very strong melodic line (in the top voice for example.) The fact that this line is strong and can stand all by itself is what will allow you to write another melodic line against it (that should also be strong and stand on it's own.) This second line can be very consonant to very dissonant against the first depending on your objective. You could have these lines sounding consonant together and than do strange things in the bass that change the character of the upper voices: this bass line should be strong. The remaining third voice can move slower and serve as a harmonic backdrop linked with either the bass or the upper voices or go back and forth or be another independent strong line.

A safe or strong way of doing linear writing is to write the top line and then the bass against it. If these are strong together you have half the battle won and then can write your inner voices to work with this basic outline.

Listen to Bartok's Music For Strings Percussion and Celeste (1st movement fuge) if you want to hear linear writing that is generally dissonant but also lands on beautiful consonant vertical harmonies. Gorgeous masterpiece.

All in all, I agree with this approach. But could I adjust it a little by suggesting to write from "foreground" to "background"? It doesn't change things too much, but allows a little more flexibilty in the register of your most prominent part(s).

J.

[Martin Bayless]

svk - there seams to be such large inconsistencies between your sophisticated writing and what you ask. all good but pointing to a developmental need for more formal training. it doesn't mean you will "loose your voice," only strengthen it as you develop your craft and are able to better analyze your writing. what you are asking about here is counterpoint, part of a second year college curriculum. you have such great talent that it seams you are beyond the random help of a forum like this because they are just fragmented pieces of a bigger puzzle that would be made clearer by hands on guidance. you're in san diego, yes? there is a very good composer at ucsd named rand steiger. you might look him up and at least get some first rate thoughts on where to go next.