New Demos > your feedback(s) are welcome

[Beat Kaufmann]

Hello
I've produced some demos during the last weeks. They all where published here - but
(unfortunately?) beside Guy's fantastic Second Age of Krypton. Therefore (?) I got
not one feedback perhaps [:'(] [:'(] [:'(] .
So I have decided to publish them once more.


I'm especially interested in any kind of feedback to my march - even if you not are a friend
of this music style. Do you have a demo to similar music styles like Big Band, Dixieland or so?
Sample March Beat Kaufmann
http://www.vsl.co.at/Player2.aspx?Lang=13&DemoId=4888


Another demo was the one which shows the sound of the two VSL English Horns. Do you
like the sound of both of them?
Cantilena for English Horn 1 Willem DeFesch
http://www.vsl.co.at/Player2.aspx?Lang=13&DemoId=4886
Cantilena for English Horn 2 Willem DeFesch
http://www.vsl.co.at/Player2.aspx?Lang=13&DemoId=4887


Have you ever heard the Piccolo this way? My wife told me, that nobody could play
the piccolo as fast as I programed it. (second part of the track)...
Sonata in G for Piccolo FluteWillem DeFesch
http://www.vsl.co.at/Player2.aspx?Lang=13&DemoId=4889


Do somebody know how to play music which was composed in the 15th and 16th century?
Which notes are emphased? Are there sites in the net where we can get information how
to play this music style?
Canzon per sonare No1 (Brass II) G. Gabrieli
http://www.vsl.co.at/Player2.aspx?Lang=13&DemoId=4890


Have fun
Beat Kaufmann

[JWL]

Well, Herr K:

You know that I'm one of your biggest fans and have always admired your work and your generosity with sharing info.

Perhaps you feel a little "overshadowed" with having your early music demos in the same thread as 'Krypton', but keep in mind that the vast majority of users who invest in VSL-VI do so because they are primarily seeking a large romantic orchestral sound. Applications of VSL's massive samples for early music or chamber music are not always the first methods many users will use.

However, that you have done so much with smaller ensembles and less commonly progammed musical styles is a great asset to demonstrate the versatility of the Cube-- and to show off its tremendously musical articulation detailing. I will also add that you have made your own mastery of this library abundantly apparent, and for that you are to be highly commended.

The March is indeed a march and not really Dixieland or Big Band in musical style. It was extremely well done-- and by nature it sounds as if a classical orchestra was playing it. There are stylistic elements with some types of articulations that are characteristic of German Oktoberfest brass bands that are not included with the Cube. Your March is pristine, and all of your "players" obey the rules as any trained classical musician would. For a more folk style, individual players tend to add elements randomly-- trombones will slide up to certain notes, clarinetists will bend certain pitches and even dare to "back-phrase" their solo passages. For faster note passages, these musicians will, at times, emphasize the offbeats a little more: in a long passage of 16ths, the 2nd and fourth notes would have more emphasis than the 1st and 3rd notes. Folk musicians compensate for their lack of technical skill with an enomous vocabulary of music antics which bring another layer of personality to the performance.

This is not to say that there was anything lacking in your track. I found it very exciting and very enjoyable!!!

I loved the two English horn performances of the Cantilena, although after several listenings I enjoyed English horn 2 the best. I really appreciated the insight you shared with how you created both of them from the same basic midi track with minor editing. It takes a bit of time for someone like me to study your accomplishments-- and I'm waiting for a similar project so that I can go back and study your techniques more carefully.

Your wife is correct: never in a million years will you hear a live piccolo peformance like that!! It, again, was very exciting because of its seemingly impossible virtuosity and accuracy. I do wonder, however, that some of the stronger attacks in the first half might not have been a little too strong? They felt a lot more natural during the allegro section, but the more moderate tongue-ing in the first half was wonderfully implimented and beautiful.

The Canzon for brass was also very well done. Bravo! Stylistically, I found the break between the fourth and fifth notes (which repeats at various intervals) a little too short, perhaps? A longer staccato would still allow for the clarity of phrasing without appearing quite as profound-- unless of course this is what you wanted. Without specific instruction, a brass player wouldn't make *such* a large contrast.

But Herr K: please understand that you make it VERY DIFFICULT to be critical of your work. There is not much to dislike, and for all I've said here, it amounts to 0.001% of the greater impression.

Just having demos of music other than those for large romantic orchestra is something that cannot be valued highly enough. That they are done so well and so convincingly ought not to be underrated.

Bravo for the great work-- and thanks again for your musicality and your generosity!!

[PierreFunck]

@Beat Kaufmann said:

Do somebody know how to play music which was composed in the 15th and 16th century? Which notes are emphased? Are there sites in the net where we can get information how to play this music style?

I'd suggest to listen to recordings of good brass ensembles who are specialised in this type of music, e.g., Oltremontano or Concerto Palatino.

Here is a fine audio example by Oltremontano – by the way, when do we get cornett and sackbut VIs? Herb?

Renaissance music "works" best with legato playing and large-scale crescendos and diminuendos. Tiny baroque-style articulations are mostly inappropriate, and there aren't any single notes that are to be emphasised.

[JBacal]

Hi Beat,

The March is pure fun. I didn't expect the Dixieland flavor that sneaks into the piece in the last third. Very happy!

I prefer the Cantelina with English Horn 1. This is surpirsing because I generally prefer the French playing style of the second English Horn. But in this case English Horn 1 just sounds more refined to my ears. (** both versions say English Horn 1 in the top right corner of the player).

Usually I think that a little piccolo goes a long way as the instrument can get quite shrill and piercing. But your performance was quite pleasing. I also thought the continuo was extremely musical and well done.

I enjoyed the canzon per sonare a lot. However, I agree with JWL that the staccato of the 4th note may be a touch too short. It almost has hiccup quality more charactistic of harpichord phrasing. I'm also used to hearing this style of music in a very large cathedral setting with extremely long reverb tails. But these are all picky personal preferences and you should feel no obligation to agree with them. I am certainly no expert on this period of performance.

As always your performances are top quality and showcase well your musical skill and taste (and sometimes even your sense of humor [:D] ). Keep them coming!!

Best,
Jay

[Dar32]

Herr Kauffman

Your demos are the reassurance of what is capable and what can be expected out of VSL. Might one add also not to forget the hard work Herb has exerted himself in reassuring the virtousity of this great music. I personaly have made a demo CD of the Bach pieces as well as the Bakus Crypton piece. To show to any others the capability of this wide and versatile library. For Slow composers as I am. This is a relief and a reassurance that patience is a virtue and a capability. Know that you have asked for comments : I shall make an attempt, to bring light to the finality and essence of use. First of all the Virtousity of the Bach, Greig, Handel and Herbs Quartets and others of-course like are undenyably perfect. And all were programed with the Pro/ed. With the new Vi, the demos we are hearing seem to be obviously fine, but I tend to think the way they are programed with the pro/ed tends to have a tighter mix. And have more strength to them. Perhaps because they are on seperate tracks which tend to please any engineer, (makes sense). The piccolo demo is absolutely georgous. And it also has less instruments used. Therefore If I had to make a choice in how to program written music , I would use the pro/ed. On the other side of the coin, using the new VI ; Seems to be an entirely new way of using these samples. And Crypton as well as donald goes to elf town I believe are a prime examples of what can be achieved and can bedazzeled by plain playing skills and programing knowledge. Its the first of this kind anywhere. And at the moment Bakus has bedazzed the status quo. He also has reassured room on my credit card for a future purchase of this modern library. And the prospect of this creative process.
As I'm fermenting my compositions for a hopefull completion and final publishing & production. Which is a very slow process. I'm at an au of what you guy's are consistently producing. Many thanks of giving us reassurance, of what is capable of this wonderful library. Your sights are continously visited for absolute enjoyable perfect music. Just as the radio is capable of. And an educational first.
Beat I'm gonna ask of you the sample Mold you use for the baroque pieces please, in the future. If you don't mind. You started it. THANKS.

[Beat Kaufmann]

@Another User said:

...But Herr K: please understand that you make it VERY DIFFICULT to be critical of your work. There is not much to dislike, and for all I've said here, it amounts to 0.001% of the greater impression.

We all are learning from each other. If I want to become bether I need your 0,001% !!! [:D]
Thank you very much for taking the time to give all the answers.

All the best
Beat

[Beat Kaufmann]

@Another User said:

R.K.: Pro Edition <> VI

I'm greatly honoured because you've burned my Bachs and Handels to show to any others the capability of this wide and versatile library...thanks.

Using VI or ProEdition
It is true - the workflow is another one with VI than with the ProEdition. You don't have to think about slow or fast legatos, repetitions or so with the new VI. It could be that we use some articulations not that really conscious way like we did it with the Pro Edition and its Performance Tool.

A tighter sound with Pro Edition?
It has more to do with the fact, that I'm always searching for new reverbs. I started with Acoustic Reverb > SIR > Samplitude's Convolution Reverb > Voxengo's PristineSpace > VST Gigapulse and the newest now: Altiverb for XP. As always I have to learn how to use these effects. Most of the VSL-sample users want to simulate a concert atmosphere. In general I'm a friend of more "dry" mixes. So now I'm still learning how to get Altiverb's very! nice concert-house-reverbs in a dry way > The two things (dry/wet)are mutually exclusive? Hope to find better solutions...

Thank you for all your statements and taking the time to write them down here.




All the best,
Beat Kaufmann

[mathis]

The march was fun! [:D]

[hetoreyn]

Awww Beat,

Sorry man, I intended to comment on these during the podcast, (Cos I'm running out of your other stuff to play [:P]), as always Beat your work is impecable .. and I'm insanely jealous of the mastering levels that you get [:D] Perfect limiting, compression, gain and all. And as for the playing .. well it's incredible to think of you as a hobbyist.

Brilliant as always and, with your permission, I'll get these on the podcast.

[Beat Kaufmann]

@Another User said:

Awww Beat,
Sorry man, I intended to comment on these during the podcast, ...Brilliant as always and, with your permission, I'll get these on the podcast.

Hello Hetoreyn
I hereby declare that you are alloud to use my newest pieces... [:D]
But please use demos from others too. Your faithful podcast souls are bored to death - always listening to beats demos... [[;)]]
It's up to you to decide.

Thank you for your praising words [:O]ops:

All the best
Beat

[Rob Elliott]

Beat,

Didn't have time to listen to all the tracks. The piccolo may be beyond human capability but it sounded terrific.

Do you remember the 'flute' cue in the, I think - in the 3rd Harry Potter film (JW). It ended with the possessed tree striking the bird in mid flight.

In any case - that was some performance!!! Wondered if the session flute player knew that was what they were in for THAT DAY in the studio.

It almost 'sounds' unplayable' but obviously 'someone' played it. [[;)]]


I agree with the earlier post that most of us have projects that require more of a 'hollywood film sound' - but I have learned so much from your tutorials - that I apply to get the sound my clients wants. Many thanks again for all you do!

Rob

[sgentry]

Hi Beat,

I enjoyed listening to your brass ensemble demo.

Although many are available, here is a link to a legendary recording of the Gabrieli antiphonal music, including Canzon per sonare #1.

http://www.towerrecords.com/product.aspx?pfid=1169056&title=HERITAGE++The+Antiphonal+Music+of+Gabrieli+%2f+Biggs%2c+et+al">http://www.towerrecords.com/product.aspx?pfid=1169056&title=HERITAGE++The+Antiphonal+Music+of+Gabrieli+%2f+Biggs%2c+et+al

Steven

[garyeskow]

Beat;

You are something else! Where's the mustard for my pretzel... and watch out for those horses!

nice march!

gary

[jamriding]

@PierreFunck said:

... by the way, when do we get cornett and sackbut VIs? Herb?

Renaissance music "works" best with legato playing and large-scale crescendos and diminuendos. Tiny baroque-style articulations are mostly inappropriate, and there aren't any single notes that are to be emphasised.

I second that (again): only just seen the demos, Beat, after having been offline for a month. Just heard the Gabrieli: have still to hear the others.