Hi Maya,

good to hear your on it!

When I launch Logic it is able to scan a similar amount of samples and data for my EXS 24 instruments in about 10 seconds (from a cold start) Is this the sort of time VSL is aiming for?

One thought - would it be possible for the initial scanning process, that takes 7 minutes, to create a preference file that could be used instead of a scan - as long as you hadn't changed the drives or sample positions. I find I can get the synchrosoft licence control centre to confirm the presence of the key and all my licences in 5-10 seconds so subject to this confirmation perhaps VI on launch could just access the preference file and get on with it!.

Also the thing that affects my workflow isn't a single (in the morning) elongated boot time - but the consequence of the time it takes to get back-up and running following a crash - and these tend to happen more when you're maxing out the app and processor which in my case tends to happen when I'm using .... Vienna Instruments!

Anyway thanks for going public on the start times and here's hoping for a positive solution soon

best

Julian

Thanks Maya,

for the long awaited official statement of VI about the loading times issue.
Looking forward for an optimized Syncrosoft scanning solution.

Oliver

yeah, thanks. please make this a priority. on the soundtrack i'm working on at the moment, it takes so long to load up in between q's - many q's can take 4 or 5 minutes to open, if i have many VI's in the sequence. (Digital performer/dual 2.5 g5), and it's really embarrassing when you've got a director in the room having to wait for it to load up. With ilok, it all loads up instantaneously. This isn't to detract from the VSI itself, though, for which you guys are to be congratulated - major achievement. But if you're going to spend 6500 pounds on a product, like we've all just done, this does leave a bit of a bad taste in the mouth [8-)]

@julian said:

Hi Maya,

One thought - would it be possible for the initial scanning process, that takes 7 minutes, to create a preference file that could be used instead of a scan -

I'm with Julian on this one. It would be good for the VI to assume that everything is working and where it should be. Then simply have a seperate utility or a "rebuild preferences" option in the VI itself should things go horribly wrong.

In a similar vein would it be possible to modify the add directory option in the Directory Manager to select multiple folders, rather than having to manually add each one....

Cheers

Tim

Tim,

you can add folders and any selection/number of folders by drag&drop from the desktop ... but still you´re right: it should also be possible in the manager!

Cheers

Oliver

Thanks a lot, Maya, for clarifying things.

One thing I don't understand is: during the long loading time, the processors are almost idle, and so is the hard disk where the samples are stored. So I guess it actually has something to do with the communication between the Syncrosoft dongle and the computer. But then again, the License Control Center only needs a couple of seconds to check all the licenses.

So I'm really just curious what's actually happening during these 5-8 minutes...

@julian said:

Also the thing that affects my workflow isn't a single (in the morning) elongated boot time - but the consequence of the time it takes to get back-up and running following a crash

Yes, this is important. It's a fact of life that our computers crash, sometimes 2 or 3 times a day, or maybe we're installing some new software that requires a retstart. These all re-initiate the Syncrosoft scan procedure as it is now.

@julian said:

Also the thing that affects my workflow isn't a single (in the morning) elongated boot time - but the consequence of the time it takes to get back-up and running following a crash

Yes, this is important. It's a fact of life that our computers crash, sometimes 2 or 3 times a day, or maybe we're installing some new software that requires a retstart. These all re-initiate the Syncrosoft scan procedure as it is now.
Why does your computer crash 2 or 3 times a day? Not to detract from the Syncrosoft issue, but this is not normal, so there could be something wrong with your system.

DG

Thank you! Thank you!! Thank you!!!

This issue is testing my patience. Altiverb, VSL and Sonar 5 on my system are currently very unstable and I am forced to reboot regularly. Waiting those minutes everytime for copy protection is extremely frustrating!!!!!!!

Hope for improvements soon.

Best,
Jay

Jay, does it really take 10 minutes on your PC? I thought that this was a Mac problem. I only have up to 4 collections per PC, but it takes less than a minute on mine from a cold boot.

DG

DG, Full boot time for 10 collections on a MacBookPro 2.16 running Windows XP2 (if you can stomach the 1980's graphics!) takes 2 minutes. Same computer running OSX takes 5:45.

Re crashing on a Mac - if I run my audio apps conservatively it will go for weeks without a crash. When i run everything against the end stops and the computer is straining away you can get more frequent crashes. Most of these, due to the stability of OSX, don't affect other active programmes or the "finder" but good practice should dictate a OS restart in case of any unnoticed corruptions.

Julian.

@oliverheuss said:

Tim,

you can add folders and any selection/number of folders by drag&drop from the desktop ... but still you´re right: it should also be possible in the manager!

Cheers

Oliver

Thanks I'd not realised that.

"But then again, the License Control Center only needs a couple of seconds to check all the licenses. So I'm really just curious what's actually happening during these 5-8 minutes..."

I asked this once specifically but never got an answer (that I recall). Launching LLC says "Initializing" and "Scanning for Devices," and here it takes about ten seconds. Launching Logic with a VI instance says "Scanning Licenses," and it takes over three minutes (with only five licenses loaded). (And that doesn't not include data loading -- just "scanning licenses.")

What is Syncrosoft verifying in a Logic launch that it isn't verifying when you start LLC? You'd think the licenses are either there or not there. Those three minutes seem like it's a debate in the House of Commons.

I'm glad VSL openly pursuing the matter.

@paul lm said:

yeah, thanks. please make this a priority. on the soundtrack i'm working on at the moment, it takes so long to load up in between q's - many q's can take 4 or 5 minutes to open, if i have many VI's in the sequence. (Digital performer/dual 2.5 g5), and it's really embarrassing when you've got a director in the room having to wait for it to load up. With ilok, it all loads up instantaneously. This isn't to detract from the VSI itself, though, for which you guys are to be congratulated - major achievement. But if you're going to spend 6500 pounds on a product, like we've all just done, this does leave a bit of a bad taste in the mouth [8-)]

The time taken to load between cues is governed by the amount of sample headers that are required to be loaded into RAM. This currently is a little slower - but not much - than sample load with EXS 24 in Logic.

This thread has been discussing a different issue that is not sample load related but concerns the initialisation time of Vienna Instruments at first boot up PRIOR to any sample load.

You will obtain the fastest cue to cue load times by employing fast hard drives, a fast computer processor and plenty of RAM.

I would hope that there will be optomizations in the future that speed up the RAM loading time. My unscientific calculations give (on my system - G5 dual 2.5/6.5 GB of RAM SATA 2 Raid drives) sample load speeds in the region of 10-15MB/second - this is from a drive set that has sustained transfer speeds of 200MB/second. So sample load on my system is only about a tenth of the systems potential.

I've no idea what is causing the bottlenecks - whether is hardware based or software, but I'm sure there is room for improvement with current technology without having to wait for yet to be released faster processors and drives.

Julian

@julian said:

DG, Full boot time for 10 collections on a MacBookPro 2.16 running Windows XP2 (if you can stomach the 1980's graphics!) takes 2 minutes. Same computer running OSX takes 5:45.

Re crashing on a Mac - if I run my audio apps conservatively it will go for weeks without a crash. When i run everything against the end stops and the computer is straining away you can get more frequent crashes. Most of these, due to the stability of OSX, don't affect other active programmes or the "finder" but good practice should dictate a OS restart in case of any unnoticed corruptions.

Julian.

Yes, I thought that you said that all 10 collections were about 2 minutes to scan. That's why I was surprised at Jay's 10 minutes.

I'm glad to hear that Macs don't crash that often. I am always surprised to hear that any computer crashes in normal use, as I think that mine have only crashed once in the last year (over-heating, as I couldn't be bothered to switch the air con on!). It is good to know that both platforms are stable and will continue to give people a choice.

DG

it sounds like some are wondering about the difference of needed time for scanning licenses between the license control center and the Vienna Instruments

well - LCC simply looks which licenses are on your ViennaKey (this is currently a maximum of 10) and displays their names, no check of any library data happens there, no harddisk access, ect

the vienna instrument is cycling through the data-files assigned in your directory manager and compares the needed license to access this data with licenses that are present on your ViennaKey

christian

@cm said:

the vienna instrument is cycling through the data-files assigned in your directory manager and compares the needed license to access this data with licenses that are present on your ViennaKey

But the question remains: during this process there is almost no processor activity and almost no disk activity, so what's actually going on? I still think there must be a possibility to speed this up dramatically... Anyway it's good to hear that VSL are investigating this.

DG-- The 10 minute figure is an approximation and includes the loading of 1.5 GB of VSL VI samples. I will put a clock on it and post the exact amount of time in the next day. But it is a lot longer than I can sit quietly just staring at my monitor [:D] .

Best,
Jay

[/quote="DG"]
Why does your computer crash 2 or 3 times a day? Not to detract from the Syncrosoft issue, but this is not normal, so there could be something wrong with your system.

DG[/quote]

Probably because i'm always really pushing things, with tons of tracks and using plug-ins from many different manufacturers. Plus, the tighter the deadline, the more crashes!

There's nothing wrong with my computer, but as a beta tester for various software programs, I'm aware of the significant number of bugs in the programs we all use everyday (even the release versions), and these types of thing usually are most problematic when you're pushing stuff to the limit. Maybe it's more like a few days with no crashes, and then a few with 2 or 3, whatever, but the point is we shouldn't have to wait 10 minutes for 10 licenses to re-scan (on first boot-up) if we have all those licenses on a single Mac.

@JBacal said:

DG-- The 10 minute figure is an approximation and includes the loading of 1.5 GB of VSL VI samples. I will put a clock on it and post the exact amount of time in the next day. But it is a lot longer than I can sit quietly just staring at my monitor [:D] .

Best,
Jay

Jay, that's still a lot longer than my system. For some reason boot-up is longer now I have more memory, but the Syncrosoft thingy is less than 1 minute and 2.8GB samples takes a further 5 minutes (roughly). It would be useful fro you to split up the sample loading from the Syncrosoft issue, as this time is affected by other (hardware) factors. Do a cold boot and then load an empty project, apart from 1 (empty) Vienna instrument and you should see how long it actually takes.

DG