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  4. MAC users AU Net/Send revelations

  • MAC users AU Net/Send revelations

    S
    S
    Hi guys,.....

    I always thought that AU send/recieve can only carry 2 audio channels between computers. NOT SO!

    I've got 8 going so far (that's the good news)

    Here is the rig......I picked up a mac mini 1.67 dual with 2 gig RAM today.

    It is running 8 instances of Vienna Instruments within Plogue Bidule. Now each instance is cabled to it's own "net-send" plug.....

    Now the only thing connecting the mac-mini to my master G5 (which runs Logic), is an Ethernet cross-over cable....

    Now in Logic I have set up 8 audio instruments....Each one of those has a "net-recieve" plug....and guess what? It worx [;)]

    Now the bad news......As long as Logic is not in play mode, I can play the keyboard with ALL 8 instances record-enabled and trigger all the Vienna Instruments virtually latency-free with NO artifacts....

    However, IF i hit play on Logic and start playing that is when the latency starts....

    Weird....because you would think that it would be the other way around......

    Oh yeah....I almost forgot ...The net-sends on the MAC-Mini are all set to 24bit PCM........


    This is promising stuff....cause if they sort it out, slave computers will no longer require there own Audio interfaces...

    thoughts?

    Anyone else messed with this?

    SvK
  • S
    S
    AND btw....
    The Mini-Mac 1.67 Dual with 2 gig Out performs my G5 2.0 Ghz Dual!!

    I know it's hard to believe, but it is true! (how can it do this..it's so tiny[;)]

    SvK


    I didn't even put the samples on a seperate drive......Just banged them right on the mac-mini-internal....

    SvK
  • N
    N
    The problem for me was latency (from another G5), as I posted in another thread. It was about 150ms - totally unusable. That was when it wasn't playing, so I'm confused why you'd have such better results.

    You might try running a TOSlink cable from your main machine to the slave for sync (you have to go to Audio MIDI Setup and tell the computer to to do that). That might affect the change in latency - assuming you don't have PDC turned on and that's all it is.
  • S
    S
    Nick ......

    I think it is a simple bug....

    In Logic at least...the latency only kicks in once you hit the play button.......When Logic is stopped, i can play the instruments streaming in from the MacMini..with virtually no latency....however if I hit play on Logic and perform the latency starts randomly drifting like crazy, up to like 3 seconds and than back down to 150ms and then back up to 3 etc, etc,

    So my point is, if it can do it in stopped mode, than it must be some simple bug.....

    SvK
  • N
    N
    Crossed posts.

    The drift almost will go away if you clock the two machines together.

    Or you could just not hit ever Play. [6]
  • S
    S
    Nick ....how do I do that?

    clock them together? How?

    I'm confused, since the audio is being carried exclusively over the ehternet cross/over cable OR fire-wire (that worx 2)

    SO how do I clock them?


    thanx,

    SvK
  • S
    S
    Nick,

    The thing is, do we even know if clocking is still an issue when using AU Net/Send ?

    Do the same rules of digital clocking apply to the "AU net/send" that apply to AES /SPDIF / ADAT clocking?

    The reason I ask is...that the problem is NOT clocking noise etc....it's purely latency drift in play mode.

    SvK
  • L
    L
    have you tried http://plasq.com/wormhole ?
  • S
    S
    Leon,

    I'll try it...

    SvK
  • J
    J
    svonkampen,

    Have you checked the settings for plugin latency compensation? Try disabling it. Maybe there's a bug in that process which is getting errors while calculating compensation times. This would explain why it's only on playback.

    J.
  • N
    N
    svk - clock certainly is an issue, even over ethernet. I believe DP has a setting for ethernet sync, but with AUNetsend/Receive you must clock both machines. The only way to do that is with TOSlink from the master machine (or v.v., but I wouldn't recommend it).

    You have to go into Audio MIDI Setup and tell the slave Mac to clock to its digital S/PDIF input. Then the drifting stops.

    Max of FX-Teleport fame told me that, by the way - I can't take credit for having known it before.

    Also, jbm's suggestion makes sense (even though I also made it [:)] ) - Logic's PDC can be a little quirky, I've found.
  • J
    J
    since it's been mentioned, I'll also chime in...i was at a guy's studio the other week, and he's using WormHole...it was all in Logic with EXS...and I intend to use it with VI, but from what I've seen, it looks great...also, he was using MIDI over LAN (the brand, that is)...anyone using any other sort of midi over LAN software? I'd use Tiger's, but it doesn't remember bloody ports...
  • N
    N
    Please let me know if you get Wormhole working with acceptable latency. It was unusable when I tried.
  • J
    J
    I too tried wormhole at one point. The latency made it pretty much useless. Too bad.
    If it's working better now I might give it a go again... I am registered, after all!

    I won't need anything until I finally jump-in and replace my PC with a Mactel -- probably a laptop of some kind -- as I've currently got an old DIGI 9636/52 in the PC!!! Nice card! Too bad there's no Mactel with a standard PCI slot... and probably never will be. (Actually, it would still be really smart for Apple to put a standard PCI slot or two on the new towers. Here's hoping that they do.)

    J.
  • L
    L
    hey I just got an idea: audition your compositions using the noisy analogue outs on the mini's, with cheap merger box, and bounce your final takes using the built-in network audio on OSX (with ridiculous latency, but who cares if ur only bouncing).
  • J
    J
    That's a totally reasonable solution, Leon.

    You know, I think it's so easy to get caught up in a sort quest for the Holy VSL Grail. Admittedly, there are ideal situations, but who can really afford them? Or at least, who can afford them while they're still "new"?

    I, for one, know I spend way too much time dreaming up "ideal" solutions to current problems (as dramatically proven in other threads). Slowly... very slowly... I'm starting to realize that I'd be better off just working with what I've got, and trying to make some damn music! There will _always_ be limitations. It's as simple as that.

    cheers,

    J.
  • J
    J
    I'll keep you all updated when I install and start working with my slave...I've been lucky enough to only need my dual 2.7 so far!...

    Josh
  • H
    H
    try this

    To each Audio Instrument track insert an I/O plug-in. (Stereo>Logic>Helper>I/O).
    When the I/O Plug-in pops up on the screen, assign any bus to its output (1-2, for instance) and assign another bus to its input (1-2, for instance). Then put the plug-in into BYPASS mode. This forces Logic to treat this channel as a live input, thereby eliminating any latency that would otherwise occur.


    from the old EXS 24 / VSL as slave instructions
  • J
    J
    HEY ALL,

    Regarding WORMHOLE...I'm happy to report that I have it working just fine on my system!

    Here's my setup:

    master 2.7 dual G5
    slave 1.8 single G5

    both machines plugged into an ethernet router.

    software that I'm running:
    on both:
    wormhole
    &
    Music Lab's MIDI over LAN CP3
    (http://www.musiclab.com)

    on Slave: Digital performer (I also have Plogue...but Haven't played with it yet)
    on Master: Logic

    ok...
    I'm sure all y'all know how to set up something like MIDI over LAN (Tiger also has MIDI over Network feature, but it doesn't activate ports...or autoload when you boot computer...MusicLab's software does)...so, once you make sure MIDI is travelling correctly,


    WormHole...
    it's also really easy...

    but, the latency that was mentioned earlier in this thread was overcome in my studio by making sure that the latency setting on the SENDING instance of Wormhole on the SLAVE COMPUTER, was at a LOW setting ( have it at 6, but I think it works at 0samples as well....supposedly, wormhole is supposed to configure itself, but I changed stuff around....

    also, make sure that they are in "sync" by checking the 'sync' box on the plug-in (in my case, I have to make sure that DP on my slave is running at the same sample rate/bit depth as my master...but I think you all already knew that)...also, I've checked "play through" on the Wormhole Plugin.

    Good luck...I've only run 1 instance of it with the DLSMusicDevice on my slave, but VI is next!

    Josh
  • J
    J
    last edited
    last edited

    @svonkampen said:

    AND btw....
    The Mini-Mac 1.67 Dual with 2 gig Out performs my G5 2.0 Ghz Dual!!


    Whoa!! I'm still trying to get my head around this issue!! [[:|]]

    Mini bus speed = 167 Mhz
    2.0 Dual bus speed = 1Ghz

    The more I live,
    The more I learn.
    The more I learn,
    The more I realize,
    The less I know.

    Remakable!

    For the price, a trio of Minis would solve a lot of issues right now for me.... First of the month-- bills are due.

    Crap!! [:@]