Universal Mode: as good as advertised?

[Trailerman]

I've just finished watching the Vienna Instruments tutorials, and have to confess I was pretty blown away, particularly by the potential of Universal Mode.

I'm currently an EW QL Platinum user, but this has made me think about a switch.

So, can I ask: is Universal Mode as impressive as it looks? Given the number of articulations that can be combined into one performance, and the apparent ability of the VI's algorithms to detect playing styles and apply suitable articulations, this appears like it could save a load of time.

Specifically, how are people working with this? Is it realistic enough that you can actually play most of the performance in this mode, and then perhaps tweak articulations later? Or are power users finding that it doesn't usually select the correct articulations, and it still all has to be done manually after parts are recorded?

Many thanks in advance for any views or feedback. Now I just need a Group Buy or Crossgrade deal to clinch it! [[;)]]

Jules

[DG]

I think that you are asking the wrong question. If you're a current EW user, I assume that you like the sound of this library. VSL sounds very different, so the first thing that you need to decide is do you like the sound.

Regarding the Universal Mode. I have actually built my own and sometimes I use it, sometimes not. It certainly makes programming much easier to do in real time, but every track you write will need different articulations, so you will always have to tweak, or alternatively set up your "instrument" after a lot of thought.

DG

[Trailerman]

Thanks for your response DG.

@Another User said:

Regarding the Universal Mode. I have actually built my own and sometimes I use it, sometimes not. It certainly makes programming much easier to do in real time, but every track you write will need different articulations, so you will always have to tweak, or alternatively set up your "instrument" after a lot of thought. DG

Thanks DG - I can imagine this being the case. Presumably though one could set up 2 or 3 Universal Mode presets for each section, and this would cover a good chunk of the types of parts one would typically needs to lay down. If you know you need a basic 1st violin part for example, which doesn't use any exotic playing styles, Universal Mode with a basic selection of legato, staccato and repetition articulations, could presumably get you a long way there. This would have to be infinitely quicker than working out which notes will work best played with a legato patch, which staccato, and then recording everything separately, assigning the correct patches etc.

Thanks again for your input.

Jules

[DG]

The Universal Mode has far more stuff in it than I can use in real time, and I'm a pretty good keyboard player. What is often a good way (for me) to program is to play and do the expression on the first pass with simple keyswitching, and then on the second pass play in the other keyswitches. It is certainly possible to play more than I do in real time, but it is actually quicker for me to do it my way. I have the same keyswitches for all instruments so there is no confusion there.

One of the best things about VI is that the various patches actually match up volume to volume, so that when you keyswitch it is very rare that you have to adjust the "expression" that you have already recorded.

DG

[dpcon]

You mentioned the advantages of the interface. You won't believe you're good fortune when using it with VSL's large sample base. Very organized and easy to use with everything at your fingertips. The features on the interface are far ahead of any other library allowing for tons of expression. You will love it I'm sure. I've cut down on time use and number of midi tracks exponentially with it. The sound of course is incredible.

[golem]

Interesting.

In the course of gathering ideas and features for version 2.0
I would find it extremely valueable to get to know different
workflows.

If you are up to it and can spare some time on this, pls
send me an outline of workflow (procedures on how you tackle different problems)
and eventual hindrances in the course of your creation.

PLS send it to my email account. Don't post it here (It might confuse the
uninitiated and protects your genuine way of working)

Thanks
Christian Teuscher
Development

mailto: c.teuscher@vsl.co.at

[Trailerman]

Dave, DG

Many thanks for your responses. I'm encouraged by your thoughts on the interface, which seems to me to be the biggest single unique benefit of these libraries, given that the underlying samples are of such recognized and consistent quality.

Much as I'd love to be able to write every part phrase by phrase, using the precise articulation and playing style I want for every individual note, the reality of being able to 'perform' large chunks of a section's arrangement, and have the interface effectively take on a large part of the patch and articulation selection responsibilities, is hugely attractive.

I'm not a classically trained arranger, and therefore tend to 'play' parts as I create them, rather than 'writing' them. For people like myself, haveing an interface which is able to interpret the way you play appears to be a huge step forward.

Thanks again for all your help and feedback.

Jules

[Christian Marcussen]

@Another User said:

For people like myself, haveing an interface which is able to interpret the way you play appears to be a huge step forward.

Just so you wont get dissapointed. The VI does not 'think'... So dont expect to just load up, play and have the VI select all the right ariculations. You will still need tweaking. The tweaking process is however is far easier than it ever was, but there is nothing in the VI which puts keyswitching to the grave. The marketing buzzwords like 'intelligent' can be a little misleading.

Now. With that out of the way I can honestly say that the VI is the best, most effective and well thought out sampleplayer ever created. It blows away everything else. It has a myriad of possibilities for setting up things just as you like them, and it loads twice the amount of sample data as GigaStudio (and Kontakt which I beleive is about the same as GS3).

And as this thread shows, VSL are listening to how the player can be improved even further. No more waiting for Native Instruments or Tascam to get moving - the road from user to creator (VSL) is far shorter.

[Trailerman]

Thanks Christian

I do appreciate that the VI will not automatically deliver perfect articulation choices without the user having to do anything.

What I like is that, for example, you can have a Universal Mode preset loaded, which can handle both long and short articulations. Most keyswitch patches (in EW QL SO) are either long OR short notes, which means playing parts which use both is more time consuming. Keyswitching (and manual articulation programming) will probalby always be an integral part of obtaining accurate interpretations of performance, but if the VI can take on evern a part of that responsibility, and the speed function can help integrate some basic articulation switches automatically, then that will save time.

Unfortunately I just learned that the price I was qutoed for the Orchestral Cube is just the Standard, not the Extended version, so I may have to wait a while longer to make the move, but I feel it's definitely on the cards at some stage.

Can I ask one more question: is the VI able to handle legato slides from one note to another (portamento)? I've always struggled to get this effect realistically with the EW library, and have to use predefined slide ranges, tacked onto other articulations. For some scenarios, this is not always convincing (Middle Eastern string parts for example, which use unusual glissandos and slide ranges). Do the Vienna Instruments handle this differently or more intuitively?

Thanks again to all for the input

Jules

[DG]

@Trailerman said:

Can I ask one more question: is the VI able to handle legato slides from one note to another (portamento)? I've always struggled to get this effect realistically with the EW library, and have to use predefined slide ranges, tacked onto other articulations. For some scenarios, this is not always convincing (Middle Eastern string parts for example, which use unusual glissandos and slide ranges). Do the Vienna Instruments handle this differently or more intuitively?

Jules

All portamento up to an octave is recorded, so all you do is switch patch (either by keyswitch or controller) and play. There are also Zigane portamento patches for Chamber Strings and Solo Strings, but not yet for the Orchestral Strings. However, these can be "faked" by using two MIDI tracks; no big deal. There are also Sul patches (one string) which contain much less obvious slides.

DG

[plowman]

"There are also Zigane portamento patches for Chamber Strings and Solo Strings, but not yet for the Orchestral Strings."

DG, are these in the works? Maybe I missed something.

[DG]

@Plowman said:

"There are also Zigane portamento patches for Chamber Strings and Solo Strings, but not yet for the Orchestral Strings."

DG, are these in the works? Maybe I missed something.

Who knows, but they could be edited from current samples so maybe [[;)]]

DG

[Trailerman]

Thank you.

Sounds like the portamento side of things is fairly well covered.

Jules