I've probably said this before on this forum, but I believe that the keyboard action in my Triton Studio is manufactured by Fatar. I do like it, even after 3 and a half years of some serious pounding, and it's never let me down.

I also have the CME UF8 in the house. It's solid, and I prefer the action to the Triton now, but if it doesn't get used for 10 minutes you'll need to gliss up and down the keys to get them unstuck. It's a well-known problem with these keyboards, and something to do with the oil used in them apparently.... Not a major gripe, but I do feel a bit silly when I have people over. If I don't do it and try to play lightly, the key will trigger late due to the late application of extra force from me to get the damn key to move. However, if you remember to gliss regularly, it won't bother you. I gave up on USB connection as the trailing notes were almost constant and unbearable. Having said that, I still get them occasionally with midi, but really only occasionally.

Oh, I'm fairly sure that I get double values on things like sustain messages, if another CME user could confirm or deny that would be helpful.

I'm using a UF8 and I haven't had any double values on my sustain messages (I haven't noticed double values on anything). If you're using Windows you can use the UF Editor to check.

Regards,

Martin

OSX here.

There is a UFx Translator Beta .04 for OSX available from http://www.cme-pro.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=4">http://www.cme-pro.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=4, and I know it's supposed to do similar things to the UF Editor, but I'm not sure if it has the same feature to be able to monitor the MIDI passing through it. It's worth a try though.

Sorry, I just had a thought...

If you're using Logic you can use the Input View object on the Click & Ports layer in the Environment to check whether any messages are doubling up.

Are you using Logic?

I am using Logic mosso.

Typically, I tried to re-create the problem and it didn't happen. Will try again in the morning when I'm not so tired I can't remember my name. [[;)]]

I have just spent a couple of weeks trying out controller keyboards and have made my choice! See below....

But first a comment about 127 velocity layers and VSL. Unless a VSL library has more than 127 velocity layers in its sample libraries surely having more than 127 layer accuracy on a controller is going to be wasted? In other words: the sample library is at present more limiting than the midi standard for expressing velocity with 127 possible values. Or have I missed something here?

To my knowledge the only sample library to date which has used 127 velocity layers is FXpansion's BFD Deluxe acoustic drum VI (and only on selected parts of selected kits). This is done just as much to reduce the machine gun effect as much as accurately express the volume of each hit as far as I can tell.

Anyway, about keyboards.... I was looking for a 88 key controller with preferably weighted hammer action but at the cheapest price possible. I tested the M-Audio Keystation 88 pro and it was very light, playuable on the one hand but with no 'percussive enjoyment' at all really, just a bit more weight and 'piano like feel' than your average synth keyboard, however if you get along fine with a synth type keyboard but want a bit more of a piano-like response this might be great for that. I also tried the CME UF8. It was more satisfying to play - although it felt very different, a different kind of action to any piano I have ever played. The keys had a satisfying weight but the resistance when pressing down and the rebound was odd, more usable than the keystation for playing fast and staccato type stuff or trills (the keystation keys starting to feel like wilted celery sticks!) but still giving you the feeling of having to do battle with it when playing sometimes. Another thing I didn't like abut the UF8 was the black keys seemed very square in cross section which made them feel like they were sitting very high up above the white keys (maybe they were too). But although it was a bit weird I prefered the UF8 over the Keystation 88 pro.

Then I tried the Yamaha P70 and the action on that compared to the other two was in a whole new league. [[:D]] This keyboard is only a bit more expensive than the other two but well worth the extra if it's action you care about. It was all there and really felt inspiring to play just as a set of keys whether or not piano realism is what you are after (and it does feels very real). I am so glad someone posted here about it's consistent key to key velocity output. Mine is being delivered at the start of this week [[:D]]

Obviously is all about personal taste/musical style and so on but if you are thinking about getting something in the price range of UF8 or Keystation 88 pro please try out a Yamaha P70 as well and compare the action.

Hope that is of some help to someone. [[;)]]

I've told you a thousand times already - YAMAHA S90 ES.

It naturally depends on your keyboard skills and what effectiveness a balanced hammer action would have. If you are not a trained keyboard player, then you could use just about anything.

I've played them all from the year dot. All of them. The Kurzweil PCM1's are now cheap - good action. The K2600 has an action like you're playing in an open cockpit at 10,000 feet - it's crap as far as I'm concerned.

The trouble with so-called weighted actions is that they're way too heavy for the type of stuff being used - as in samples. Most people that want to play the piano sound would be better off just playing the grand piano sound direct from the Yamaha S90 es - and forget about piano samples. There is hardly any difference at all - it's all hype bs.

If you can't play in the first place - don't waste your money.

I was paying attention to what you said until you said the onboard sounds beat samples.....

I disagree - Ivory piano and there are a few others out there - is excellent and can't be matched in a keyboard unless they load the same sounds and sample software into the keyboard itself.

@mpower88 said:

I was paying attention to what you said until you said the onboard sounds beat samples.....

I disagree - Ivory piano and there are a few others out there - is excellent and can't be matched in a keyboard unless they load the same sounds and sample software into the keyboard itself.

Yeah, I understand all that. I mentioned the Ivory system on this board over a year before it came out - before anyone had heard of it actually. So when the Ivory AU came out, I went out and bought it. And yeah - it sounds pretty good, along with all the other pretty good piano samples. BUT - it's like any keyboard player worth a salt will tell you - playing a piano from a computer - through a keyboard - suffers. The differential between what's available as piano samples on a computer and what's in the Yamaha is so slight as not to be worth mentioning. Then there's the crappy latency issue you have to put with.
Saying the Ivory system is better than sounds within an electronic keyboard - is the sort of thing a non-keyboard player would say.

Let's get this out in the open with no bullshit.

If you want a really great piano sound - forget about computers and electronic keyboards. Get yourself a great soundcard - really good mics - a technician to set them up - and buy a Steinway.
Because none of the sampled pianos sound really great and that's a fact. They're like all samples - a compromise and a trade off.
The Yamaha is as good as any other sound from a piano sample library out there. In a mix, there is no difference at all. It's all imagination and wishful thinking based on capital expenditure.

There are other electronic pianos you can buy that are more expensive than the Yamaha that ALSO have good piano sounds - but you were talking originally about action if I remember correctly.
All piano sample libs are OK - but basically for good keyboard players a waste of money when you start adding it all up. Some nerdy types have loads of these piano libraries and STILL won't and don't get the sound they want.

Clark said it - open up all the boxes and try and find an action you like - because the quality control of these factory turned out electronic keyboards may not be all it should be. But Clark is a keyboard player and knows what he's looking for. It's the same as you giving me a violin and telling me it's great - I wouldn't have clue if that was true or false. Non -trained keyboard players haven't got a clue because an 'action' doesn't really mean anything to them if you think about it.

With all due respect to you Miklos - I can probably play things with my feet and left hand that you'll never be able to play with your right. First electronic keyboard I had was in 1965 - a Farfisa Compact - loved it. Then moved onto Hammonds, Moogs etc etc. Always though, there was a real piano. If that's not enough experience for you - then good luck in your quest.

I think another thing people don't get is that Ivory is not meant to sound like a "real" piano, live in your living room. It is meant to sound like a superbly engineered *recording* of a live piano, and in this it excels. If you want to have a recording of a piano perfect every time and don't want to spend on a piano, hall, tuner, microphones cables, recording gear, engineer etc etc etc, use ivory it's very almost the same thing with all of the convenience and the price! much cheaper than a real recording!