I've been thinking of purchasing the new CME 88-key controllers. They have hammer action weight. I was think the Keystation, but all I see is that it's semi-weighted per the description (the 88es anyway)

Anyone have any comments on CME? I was going to try and find JUST an 88 weighted keyboard and buy a CME interface to put elsewhere, however the CME keyboard has both combined as well as specific space for your computer keyboard and mouse.

CME has aftertouch, M-Audio 88 Keystation does not. CME has volume pedal and breath controller inpute. M-audio DOES NOT!

I'm waiting for my CME to get shipped as I type.

I'm currently using a CME UF8. I've only had it a few months, but so far I'm happy with it.

I went around some keyboard shops to try out various fully weighted 88 note keyboards, but a few things swung it for me with the UF8. One of the main reasons was that my other main choice in my price range, a Studiologic, had an action that was a little bit heavy for my liking. The other thing that gave it the edge over the Studiologic were the sliders/knobs, sequencer control buttons (play/record/ff etc.), and the breath controller input.

Having said that, there are several current "issues" with it however. The USB driver is pretty awful and I get lots of stuck notes (this is a common problem with the Windows driver and an update is on the way apparently), so I'm using the MIDI output. However with this the sequencer control buttons only sends MIDI Beat Clock and my sequencer sync's to this, so tempo has to be adjusted using a knob on the keyboard. Maybe it's just me but I really hate this! There is an app you can put between the MIDI input and your sequencer that will change these signals to CC commands so that sorts it.

Just my 2 cents...

Martin

eh? don't use the transport controls then, I never inteded to anyway.

USB creates stuck notes? I didn't know that was a USB problem. I seriously doubt it's CMEs fault.

A few people don't worry about the SEQ buttons, but like I said there is a workaround and I find them quite handy.

As for the USB driver being duff - other users on the CME forum have reported similar problems. It's seems to be a sporadic problem and I would imagine most people aren't affected by it, and hopefully you won't be either! They are apparently working on an updated driver. Like I said, I'm very happy with the keyboard, but I won't be using it with the USB connection until an updated driver is released.

Check the forum for more details http://www.cme-pro.com/forum/">http://www.cme-pro.com/forum/

Hope you enjoy the keyboard!

Martin

Now that is a helpful response - you've tried both and you preferred the latter. Thanks for sharing that. Can you explain more why? I've heard a lot of people saying bad things about the Maudio product and it's interesting you say you preferred it, personally I haven't tried either.

@clarkcontrol said:

Miklos,

Sorry I didn't mean make you feel like I was telling you something you already knew. My point was merely to say that all keyboards will be a letdown because they all have problems with the action. The only way to find one regardless of brand is to try before you buy. This is a must.

I was going to buy a Studiologic 990 (I think) board (they also use the Fatar action as I understand it) but the action, predictably, was quite irregular from note to note. It was the same price as the Keystation so I tried and liked the latter enough, and the rest is history.

So please all of you looking for keyboards: The quality from unit to unit varies widely (even the same model).

Can't say from personal experience but I've heard that the CME's are junk and not well made and don't last the distance. I've read completely contrasting reviews on it as well, one glowing the other not so.
Miklos.

@Sonrise said:

I've been thinking of purchasing the new CME 88-key controllers. They have hammer action weight. I was think the Keystation, but all I see is that it's semi-weighted per the description (the 88es anyway)

Anyone have any comments on CME? I was going to try and find JUST an 88 weighted keyboard and buy a CME interface to put elsewhere, however the CME keyboard has both combined as well as specific space for your computer keyboard and mouse.

Thanks for the replies, but the main thing I would be interested in is the best possible action, and my definition of the best possible action would probably be something close to a Steinway top of the line grand, fairly new, tempered, and perhaps just slightly lighter than that. Alternatively, the same touch as a top of the line Yamaha grand, again perhaps slightly lighter.

Has anyone compared the Studiologic SL990 to the Kurzweil K2600X in terms of action?

Miklos.

I've never seen a bad review about CME. I always see bad reviews about m-audio products, including thier 88-keystation. It's not a bad product, it's just not as good as the price. [:)]

Fair enough. Thanks.

@Argitoth said:

I've never seen a bad review about CME. I always see bad reviews about m-audio products, including thier 88-keystation. It's not a bad product, it's just not as good as the price. [:)]

However, be aware that there seems to be quite a few users who have had to return their CME keyboards due to manufacturing faults.

DG

I own the CME,

The build quality is a solid 9.5 ..........
I have the non-weighted UF7, so I can not comment on the UF8 Action.

the prices are amazing and it feels real chunky...

Transport buttons are military-spec and NO midi cables needed.

SvK

I've probably said this before on this forum, but I believe that the keyboard action in my Triton Studio is manufactured by Fatar. I do like it, even after 3 and a half years of some serious pounding, and it's never let me down.

I also have the CME UF8 in the house. It's solid, and I prefer the action to the Triton now, but if it doesn't get used for 10 minutes you'll need to gliss up and down the keys to get them unstuck. It's a well-known problem with these keyboards, and something to do with the oil used in them apparently.... Not a major gripe, but I do feel a bit silly when I have people over. If I don't do it and try to play lightly, the key will trigger late due to the late application of extra force from me to get the damn key to move. However, if you remember to gliss regularly, it won't bother you. I gave up on USB connection as the trailing notes were almost constant and unbearable. Having said that, I still get them occasionally with midi, but really only occasionally.

Oh, I'm fairly sure that I get double values on things like sustain messages, if another CME user could confirm or deny that would be helpful.

I'm using a UF8 and I haven't had any double values on my sustain messages (I haven't noticed double values on anything). If you're using Windows you can use the UF Editor to check.

Regards,

Martin

OSX here.

There is a UFx Translator Beta .04 for OSX available from http://www.cme-pro.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=4">http://www.cme-pro.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=4, and I know it's supposed to do similar things to the UF Editor, but I'm not sure if it has the same feature to be able to monitor the MIDI passing through it. It's worth a try though.

Sorry, I just had a thought...

If you're using Logic you can use the Input View object on the Click & Ports layer in the Environment to check whether any messages are doubling up.

Are you using Logic?

I am using Logic mosso.

Typically, I tried to re-create the problem and it didn't happen. Will try again in the morning when I'm not so tired I can't remember my name. [[;)]]

I have just spent a couple of weeks trying out controller keyboards and have made my choice! See below....

But first a comment about 127 velocity layers and VSL. Unless a VSL library has more than 127 velocity layers in its sample libraries surely having more than 127 layer accuracy on a controller is going to be wasted? In other words: the sample library is at present more limiting than the midi standard for expressing velocity with 127 possible values. Or have I missed something here?

To my knowledge the only sample library to date which has used 127 velocity layers is FXpansion's BFD Deluxe acoustic drum VI (and only on selected parts of selected kits). This is done just as much to reduce the machine gun effect as much as accurately express the volume of each hit as far as I can tell.

Anyway, about keyboards.... I was looking for a 88 key controller with preferably weighted hammer action but at the cheapest price possible. I tested the M-Audio Keystation 88 pro and it was very light, playuable on the one hand but with no 'percussive enjoyment' at all really, just a bit more weight and 'piano like feel' than your average synth keyboard, however if you get along fine with a synth type keyboard but want a bit more of a piano-like response this might be great for that. I also tried the CME UF8. It was more satisfying to play - although it felt very different, a different kind of action to any piano I have ever played. The keys had a satisfying weight but the resistance when pressing down and the rebound was odd, more usable than the keystation for playing fast and staccato type stuff or trills (the keystation keys starting to feel like wilted celery sticks!) but still giving you the feeling of having to do battle with it when playing sometimes. Another thing I didn't like abut the UF8 was the black keys seemed very square in cross section which made them feel like they were sitting very high up above the white keys (maybe they were too). But although it was a bit weird I prefered the UF8 over the Keystation 88 pro.

Then I tried the Yamaha P70 and the action on that compared to the other two was in a whole new league. [[:D]] This keyboard is only a bit more expensive than the other two but well worth the extra if it's action you care about. It was all there and really felt inspiring to play just as a set of keys whether or not piano realism is what you are after (and it does feels very real). I am so glad someone posted here about it's consistent key to key velocity output. Mine is being delivered at the start of this week [[:D]]

Obviously is all about personal taste/musical style and so on but if you are thinking about getting something in the price range of UF8 or Keystation 88 pro please try out a Yamaha P70 as well and compare the action.

Hope that is of some help to someone. [[;)]]

I've told you a thousand times already - YAMAHA S90 ES.

It naturally depends on your keyboard skills and what effectiveness a balanced hammer action would have. If you are not a trained keyboard player, then you could use just about anything.

I've played them all from the year dot. All of them. The Kurzweil PCM1's are now cheap - good action. The K2600 has an action like you're playing in an open cockpit at 10,000 feet - it's crap as far as I'm concerned.

The trouble with so-called weighted actions is that they're way too heavy for the type of stuff being used - as in samples. Most people that want to play the piano sound would be better off just playing the grand piano sound direct from the Yamaha S90 es - and forget about piano samples. There is hardly any difference at all - it's all hype bs.

If you can't play in the first place - don't waste your money.