Have you looked into the M-Audio Keystation Pro 88.

USB - 88 keys, hammer-action...a gazillion buttons, knobs, and sliders that can be programmed to function for any of the control options you'd need with a sample/composition set-up.

And the kicker...its cheap.

I just got rid of my Roland A-90 and purchased one of these and the VSL Pro Edition. I love them both. It's amazing how much more I enjoy some of piano libraries now with this controller...you can really tailor the velocity curve to your own playing and end up with a great set-up.

Here's a link to some info:

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/KeystationPro88-main.html

Hope this is useful.

I purchased the Pro-88 right when it came out. It is O.K. (especially for the price) but the key response is not to "concert grand" spec.

No keyboards are.

When I look at the transport in Logic (to see velocity response while I play) there is a wide variation of response between EACH NOTE. Reponse is not linear for each key either. Adjusting the curves doesn't help. M-Audio does not give me the option to program a curve, and there are only a half dozen or so curves that I can choose from.

Studiologic boards, Roland, they all exhibit this behavior (the key to key variation, that is-not the adjustable curve thing).

The thing is to find a board that has less of these problems by just taking back the keyboard and trying a new one. I did this ten years ago with 6 different Kurzweil pc-88s until I found a key action that at least had a decent middle three octaves. I ended up REALLY pi**ing this sales guy off, opening box after box.

For the silver lining, I have found that Yamaha boards (P-90, for instance) have the most consistent action-to-velocity response.

My M-Audio is actually decent (got lucky) so gonna go Knock On Wood. Most keyboards have the most variation between the black and white notes. Check it out, yours does it too.

Clark

"My M-Audio is actually decent (got lucky) so gonna go Knock On Wood. Most keyboards have the most variation between the black and white notes. Check it out, yours does it too. "

My certainly does. I haven't tried out the M-Audio. I know that no keyboard is up to concert grand spec - that was my point. All of that is my point! [:)]

I am now deciding between a M-Audio 88 and a PC2X from Kurzweil - it has really good action, going to try both out today if possible. I heard the Yamaha didn't have a mod wheel is that right? no good for vsl then. The thing I like about the M-Audio - no on board sounds! that means all the money went into the controller aspect and that is all I'm interested in. Except with the PC2X if I go for that it has some really nice keyboard sounds but that's all I'm interested in, I have Ivory piano, so I much prefer to play that than any internal sounds.

Miklos.

Well everybody it seems I have answered my own question here after much research and dreary red tired eyes I believe I have located that which, at least on paper, er in html, seems to be what I have been describing - or close to it.

www.fatar.com
www.studiologic.com

nb. I'm not affiliated with them of course in case anyone thinks I'm promoting them. Actually I haven't tried these keyboards yet just happy to find something on the internet that looks and seems to be what I am looking for and made to a high quality design. If anyone is interested I suggest you read there quality control page in the fatar site, it seems fatar make the boards and studio logic is a sub company that makes them into controllers? I'm not sure. If I find a music shop with at least one of the 88 note fully weighted models available for testing, I will write back with a report.

Miklos.

Miklos,

Sorry I didn't mean make you feel like I was telling you something you already knew. My point was merely to say that all keyboards will be a letdown because they all have problems with the action. The only way to find one regardless of brand is to try before you buy. This is a must.

I was going to buy a Studiologic 990 (I think) board (they also use the Fatar action as I understand it) but the action, predictably, was quite irregular from note to note. It was the same price as the Keystation so I tried and liked the latter enough, and the rest is history.

So please all of you looking for keyboards: The quality from unit to unit varies widely (even the same model).

I've been thinking of purchasing the new CME 88-key controllers. They have hammer action weight. I was think the Keystation, but all I see is that it's semi-weighted per the description (the 88es anyway)

Anyone have any comments on CME? I was going to try and find JUST an 88 weighted keyboard and buy a CME interface to put elsewhere, however the CME keyboard has both combined as well as specific space for your computer keyboard and mouse.

CME has aftertouch, M-Audio 88 Keystation does not. CME has volume pedal and breath controller inpute. M-audio DOES NOT!

I'm waiting for my CME to get shipped as I type.

I'm currently using a CME UF8. I've only had it a few months, but so far I'm happy with it.

I went around some keyboard shops to try out various fully weighted 88 note keyboards, but a few things swung it for me with the UF8. One of the main reasons was that my other main choice in my price range, a Studiologic, had an action that was a little bit heavy for my liking. The other thing that gave it the edge over the Studiologic were the sliders/knobs, sequencer control buttons (play/record/ff etc.), and the breath controller input.

Having said that, there are several current "issues" with it however. The USB driver is pretty awful and I get lots of stuck notes (this is a common problem with the Windows driver and an update is on the way apparently), so I'm using the MIDI output. However with this the sequencer control buttons only sends MIDI Beat Clock and my sequencer sync's to this, so tempo has to be adjusted using a knob on the keyboard. Maybe it's just me but I really hate this! There is an app you can put between the MIDI input and your sequencer that will change these signals to CC commands so that sorts it.

Just my 2 cents...

Martin

eh? don't use the transport controls then, I never inteded to anyway.

USB creates stuck notes? I didn't know that was a USB problem. I seriously doubt it's CMEs fault.

A few people don't worry about the SEQ buttons, but like I said there is a workaround and I find them quite handy.

As for the USB driver being duff - other users on the CME forum have reported similar problems. It's seems to be a sporadic problem and I would imagine most people aren't affected by it, and hopefully you won't be either! They are apparently working on an updated driver. Like I said, I'm very happy with the keyboard, but I won't be using it with the USB connection until an updated driver is released.

Check the forum for more details http://www.cme-pro.com/forum/">http://www.cme-pro.com/forum/

Hope you enjoy the keyboard!

Martin

Now that is a helpful response - you've tried both and you preferred the latter. Thanks for sharing that. Can you explain more why? I've heard a lot of people saying bad things about the Maudio product and it's interesting you say you preferred it, personally I haven't tried either.

@clarkcontrol said:

Miklos,

Sorry I didn't mean make you feel like I was telling you something you already knew. My point was merely to say that all keyboards will be a letdown because they all have problems with the action. The only way to find one regardless of brand is to try before you buy. This is a must.

I was going to buy a Studiologic 990 (I think) board (they also use the Fatar action as I understand it) but the action, predictably, was quite irregular from note to note. It was the same price as the Keystation so I tried and liked the latter enough, and the rest is history.

So please all of you looking for keyboards: The quality from unit to unit varies widely (even the same model).

Can't say from personal experience but I've heard that the CME's are junk and not well made and don't last the distance. I've read completely contrasting reviews on it as well, one glowing the other not so.
Miklos.

@Sonrise said:

I've been thinking of purchasing the new CME 88-key controllers. They have hammer action weight. I was think the Keystation, but all I see is that it's semi-weighted per the description (the 88es anyway)

Anyone have any comments on CME? I was going to try and find JUST an 88 weighted keyboard and buy a CME interface to put elsewhere, however the CME keyboard has both combined as well as specific space for your computer keyboard and mouse.

Thanks for the replies, but the main thing I would be interested in is the best possible action, and my definition of the best possible action would probably be something close to a Steinway top of the line grand, fairly new, tempered, and perhaps just slightly lighter than that. Alternatively, the same touch as a top of the line Yamaha grand, again perhaps slightly lighter.

Has anyone compared the Studiologic SL990 to the Kurzweil K2600X in terms of action?

Miklos.

I've never seen a bad review about CME. I always see bad reviews about m-audio products, including thier 88-keystation. It's not a bad product, it's just not as good as the price. [:)]

Fair enough. Thanks.

@Argitoth said:

I've never seen a bad review about CME. I always see bad reviews about m-audio products, including thier 88-keystation. It's not a bad product, it's just not as good as the price. [:)]

However, be aware that there seems to be quite a few users who have had to return their CME keyboards due to manufacturing faults.

DG

I own the CME,

The build quality is a solid 9.5 ..........
I have the non-weighted UF7, so I can not comment on the UF8 Action.

the prices are amazing and it feels real chunky...

Transport buttons are military-spec and NO midi cables needed.

SvK

I've probably said this before on this forum, but I believe that the keyboard action in my Triton Studio is manufactured by Fatar. I do like it, even after 3 and a half years of some serious pounding, and it's never let me down.

I also have the CME UF8 in the house. It's solid, and I prefer the action to the Triton now, but if it doesn't get used for 10 minutes you'll need to gliss up and down the keys to get them unstuck. It's a well-known problem with these keyboards, and something to do with the oil used in them apparently.... Not a major gripe, but I do feel a bit silly when I have people over. If I don't do it and try to play lightly, the key will trigger late due to the late application of extra force from me to get the damn key to move. However, if you remember to gliss regularly, it won't bother you. I gave up on USB connection as the trailing notes were almost constant and unbearable. Having said that, I still get them occasionally with midi, but really only occasionally.

Oh, I'm fairly sure that I get double values on things like sustain messages, if another CME user could confirm or deny that would be helpful.

I'm using a UF8 and I haven't had any double values on my sustain messages (I haven't noticed double values on anything). If you're using Windows you can use the UF Editor to check.

Regards,

Martin

OSX here.