i take the pils .... ok, back to serious things ...

i've been thinking a while about this issue and discussed it with some guys *in the know* ... and came to a conclusion i've already assumed:
the reason has to be found in the preferences.
if the system (and it _is_ the system, not the Vienna Instruments) doesn't find the path to the folder immediately (*needs 5 seconds per folder*) something needs repair or re-install.

one can think of several origins:
- the system does generally not choose the right path to the preferences and is looking somewhere else first
- the path to the preferences has not been stored correctly during install of ViennaInstruments
- another application *overrules* this path and so bends the order of locations where to look for preferences

normal speed should be about 2 folders per second, actually more. if it needs more time something related to your preferences is wrong.
please think about which applications you (who are facing the long loading times) might have installed which possibly affected the preferences path - there must be a common denominator.

possible solution: uninstall and delete everything related to Vienna Instruments Software, reboot, install from scratch (using default paths), adding paths to VSL data again.
in case this dosn't change anything you might have to consider a clean install (possibly parallel on another partition) to make sure you do not drag along any flaws from somewhere

christian

Christian,

Before we all start fault finding I am a little concerned that we haven't heard from a single person outside the walls of VSL who has achieved 30 seconds to 1 minute load times with a full extended cube installed.

Has anyone at VSL followed the full retail disc instal, set up the licences as a retail customer would have to then achieved the 30 second start times?

VSL support is tops as usual and i appreciate pointers to start fault finding but where we have a situation with everyone who has responded having such long start up times it does indicate the possibility of something amiss rather than individual computer systems.

thanks

Julian

@Another User said:

Before we all start fault finding I am a little concerned that we haven't heard from a single person outside the walls of VSL who has achieved 30 seconds to 1 minute load times with a full extended cube installed.

i'm not sure how to understand this - do you say ...? no - i'm sure, you don't say ...!
christian

@Another User said:

Before we all start fault finding I am a little concerned that we haven't heard from a single person outside the walls of VSL who has achieved 30 seconds to 1 minute load times with a full extended cube installed.

i'm not sure how to understand this - do you say ...? no - i'm sure, you don't say ...!
christian

What I was asking is is there anyone outside VSL achieving boot times under 1 minute for a full collection.

In terms of fault finding i have downloaded new installers directly from Syncrosoft and VSL and installed on a virgin MacBook Pro 2.16.

Boot time is 7 minutes 20 seconds for the standalone

hope this helps.

Julian

I installed the Vienna Instruments on the Windows partition of my MacBook Pro. I then connected a Firewire 800 drive with the vienna Library on - this is a Mac partitioned drive so I used MacDrive 6 to recognise the drive.

First boot time for the standalone was 2 minutes 2 seconds with all 10 collections (extended) and App strings. Yhis compares with 7 miutes plus on the same computer in OSX.

Not sure what this indicates - except perhaps there is a OSX issue?

Julian

cm: you didn't respond to my theory - do you ever log out or reboot your Mac at VSL?

Another theory: When we all got the original Vienna Library, the EXS instruments all had info relating to paths on VSL hard drives (eg "ice cube") as opposed to our own drives. We soon discovered that we had to re-link all the files (using Project Manager in Logic or EXSManager) to configure the instruments to our own systems. In this way, load times became very fast.

Is there perhaps some similar path configured within the VI files that confuses our systems? Or does the Vienna Installer write system-specific paths for every new installation?

I can tell you that since my very first installation of Vienna Instruments, it has taken a long time for any first instance to load. The time is always faster however for subsequent starts, even if I have quit the standalone or Logic.

Could you please tell me the exact names and location of VI pref files so that I can check them.

Regards - Colin

Colin,

I second that with my experience....my load times have ALWAYS been long. I actually first installed the instruments on a slave G5 in my studio...in fact, I didn't have a single sequencer installed on that machine...I don't think I even had ProTools installed...

I wonder if all the folks at VSL are using sequencers in Windows, or at least, loading the libraries in Windows (which would explain a lot I would imagine...especially why we haven't found a fix to this issue yet)...

...and, again, like everyone else, I experience much faster loading times aftedr the initial instance of VSL on my computer before I reboot, even if I quit standalone or Logic (...and...of course, we all know that this is because the VSL Server and the VSL Daemon continue to run in the background even after quitting standalone/sequencer until I either force-quit them or restart my system)

Josh

sorry musos, i thought this would be obvious ... of course the start is faster if some related processes are already running, but this is not the point.

usually (application-)preferences reside in: Home folder – Library – Preferences, but i have no mac here to check the details because maya does the most of VI-on-mac support and my desk is somehow *outsourced* [;)]

christian

Hi Christian,

In the light of no other information what i can gather from the recent posts is as follows:

VI initial start times should be between 30"-60" with a full symphonic cube (extended edition) installed.

A lot of people posting on the forum are encountering 7 minute start times.

This could be a Mac based issue, it could be individual system based but there certainly is something amiss!

I would welcome input from VSL to help bring the start times considered normal to VSL to the systems we are using in the field.

Thanks

Julian

Yes Julian,

I agree totaly, there must be another way than installing everything again from scratch, Christian.
It makes no sense because everything else is running very smoothly...

Best

Oliver

julian, i've already contributed patiently especially to your requests and would expect my replies to be read for not having to reiterate myself continuously.
i did not receive any precise information regarding the affected systems so far, so not very much can be said where to start streamlining your system.

we have installed the VIs on a lot of systems (mostly G5s, but going down to a dual G4 450) and some of them are not really well-tended, some of them heavily used for testings, some with clean installs, some of them even production machines. some had or still have not only one but actually a series of sequencers, host software and various *crap* installed.

so to get an idea where to start searching for the reason we had at least to get any machine in our hands showing this behaviour, all theoretical options are covered.
eg. any video software or plugins we don't have couldn't have be taken into consideration of course, the only surprising result i've read so far is the probook, which looks to be a fairly fresh install (yes, we've also tested intelmacs without noticing this behaviour)

of course i can think on a category of reasons, about which i would never talk publically, too.
christian

For the record--

On my PC the initial loading time (after rebooting the computer) for a project with 2 empty VSL VI instances in Sonar is about 6 minutes 30 seconds. I currently have 7 libraries installed.

It appears to me that the longish initial load times are NOT Mac specific.

Best,
Jay

@cm said:

julian, i've already contributed patiently especially to your requests and would expect my replies to be read for not having to reiterate myself continuously.
i did not receive any precise information regarding the affected systems so far, so not very much can be said where to start streamlining your system.

christian

Hi Christian,

Please find below all the information I've previously supplied about my system - I've collated it all together so you don't have to go back through this thread. Please advise on any further information that will be of assistance and I will gladly supply!

Julian


Synchrosoft license control launches and recognizes all my licenses in about 3 seconds.

I've tried the Vienna Key on all USB ports including directly on the G5, I've tried deleting all the files locations in the directory manager and remade these. (with no directories listed in the directory manager launch time is a few seconds). I've tried moving the custom data file to /Lib/App support/VSL/Vienna Instruments - Custom Data. I'm on the latest software versions of Vienna instruments and Synchrosoft.

Now my machine is a G5 2.5 Dual with 6.5 GB of RAM. It has 2 internal 250 GB drives the system drive has 80Gb of used sectors. I have various external drives but the only 2 connected currently are a 4 Drive Raid 0 1.6TB SATA 2 Drive and a 500GB Firewire drive. The Vienna Instruments are installed on both these drives. I have tried the boot times with only one of each drive connected (amending the directory manager accordingly) this makes no difference. The G5 also has dual 30" cinema displays - though i can't see this affecting anything.

Booting VI with no directories in the manager takes 15 seconds. Checking my licenses in license control takes 10 seconds all are present and correct. I'm on the latest software OS and VI and Synchrosoft (it was equally slow with an earlier version of Synchrosoft software) In all other respects the G5 is totally stable without any app problems.

well I actually made 4 folders (Strngs, Brass, Woodwind, Percussion)and put all the respective .dat files in at the top level, cleared the directory manager and then added just these folders and the custom data folder which hadn't benn altered. The boot time is the same. Once again in activity manager you can see the various files being scanned - it shows the penltimate .dat file for each instrument then moves onto the next instrument (in each case showing the penultimate .dat fle) this whole process takes 7 minutes.

I have done the usual re-boot and repaired privileges

No virus stuff or any third party utilities (except disc warrior)

"When I launch the Vienna Instruments application for the first time it appears to scan the licenses after approx 10 seconds then there appears to be nothing happening. If you open activity monitor it shows Vienna Instruments as "not responding" however if you double click on the app and select "open files and ports" you can see in the next line to bottom it is actually scanning the folders selected in directory manager. It is doing this at a rate of 1 folder every 5 seconds. The Symphonic Cube and Appassionata Strings have 63 folders so this is equating to the 7 minute start time a number of us are encountering.

My Vienna Instrument File Structure is disc/Vienna Instruments/01 Solo violin...86 Percussion which is I think the default installation of the Vienna Installer."

When I've just put a single collection in the directory launch times are a few seconds

In terms of fault finding i have downloaded new installers directly from Syncrosoft and VSL and installed on a virgin MacBook Pro 2.16.

Boot time is 7 minutes 20 seconds for the standalone

my MacBook Pro booted in Windows takes 2 minutes for the whole collections.

I think there is a general missconception.
I think Maya's 30 to 60 seconds startuptime refer to a startup of a VI after of opening a new logic project and not a startup after rebooting the computer.

That means after a reboot you have to wait several minutes, depending how much content is added in your Directory Manager of the VI.

If you change to a different logic project (no reboot), the startuptime of the first VI instance should be less than one minute (with the whole Symphonic Cube added)

If your workflow needs a lot of reboots of your computer (changing the studio etc.) we recommend only to add the instruments in Directory Manager which were needed.

I have also talked with our developement team to add a save/load option into Directory Manager, so you can easy and fast setup the needed instruments for a certain project.

best
Herb

So Herb,

What we are saying is that first launch is a number of minutes and is to be expected.
However I did notce durng my testing that I could get first launch on a MacBook Pro in Windows of @ minutes whereas on the OSX side it is 7 mnures on the same computer.

Also although this is in a Logic titled thread the issue is with the Vienna Instrments as the standalones on computers without Logic installed exhibit the same start up behaviour.

The main problem I forsee is when there is a system crash during production phases of a project. Relaunches (if you're using a full collection) are going to be in the magnitude of say 12-15 minutes if you factor in Computer Boot (i Minute), Vienna Instrument Initialisation (7 minutes) Sample Load (5- 6 minutes).

If you are unfortunate to get 2 crashes in a row and there's a client with you ... they'll be out the door!

What hope is there for greatly optomized initialisation times as with the further addition of great VSL instrments the directory manager will only become fuller

julian

ps will you be able to add paths to the directory manager post boot and have them appear without a re-start?

@Another User said:

1st instance of VI: 30 to max. 60 seconds
other instances: 1-2 seconds

On my system, starting up another instance after the first one takes significantly more time than 1-2 seconds.

Can report similar observations here. I haven't yet installed the latest batch of libraries as I am in a hurry to finish a project and I don't want disruptions.

My observation is that initial load time is about 3 minutes +. Had to restart this morning after my Midi collapsed on me when starting up Sibelius.

I followed the Logic Startup and watch the 'folder scan' in Activity Monitor - 5 secs per folder.

G5 with Second Internal HD, 2 external Firewire and a Sata 1Tb external box interfacing through PCI card. The SATA external is reserved for the latest Libraries.
Vienna Key is in USB port on rear of Mac.

After June 20th I will install Brass, WW, Perc Harp and report what happens.

Herb,
Thanks for the reply.
So, it seems that after a re-boot, a long load time of many minutes (7 seems to be average) is "normal".

In that case, what we are are all asking for is this: Can VSL (sometime in the future) improve the scanning process so that this "post-reboot load time" is faster? Clearly, the system is searching through directories and this takes a lot of time, first time round.

I remember when Logic's Project Manager first appeared, it took many many hours to scan all of one's EXS24 instruments. Then Redmatica's EXSManager appeared and the same process took minutes! Perhaps this improvement will also happen to Vienna Instruments.....

Regards - Colin

Colin,

Very good point in recalling the EXS example from our pasts.

I'll be honest when I say that I'm VERY suspect of Syncrosoft's ability to authorize things in a timely manner.
...that's just a thought. Has anyone been talking to Syncrosoft?? Maybe I should ask them about their authorization process...hmmmm...

thoughts?

Josh

??
Any further comment from Herb and co regarding future shortening of initial load times?