Matt
if it gives you any idea. i tried using the full VSL string ensemble patch as a playing patch with an orchestral set up pallet. And it couldn't take it as a fill playing patch because it was too full to sound realistic. But when i substituted the Chamber strings ensemble patch it hit the spot. And sounded realistic. to play fill ins.

And the lush and string swell respond of the full ensemble is great by itself. And in between spots. ect...

Thanks for the input Martin and RK. This is why i want to be sure before i spend the money. It can't be "too" lush or it will sound weird, but I figured I couldn't rely on the engineer to make the Chamber Strings something they are not. I tried layering the GPO and some synth strings underneath to fill it up, but they just don't work with the VI. Besides, you can't get the srticulation with the other sounds.

Cheers!

@R.K. said:

Matt
if it gives you any idea. i tried using the full VSL string ensemble patch as a playing patch with an orchestral set up pallet. And it couldn't take it as a fill playing patch because it was too full to sound realistic. But when i substituted the Chamber strings ensemble patch it hit the spot. And sounded realistic. to play fill ins.

And the lush and string swell respond of the full ensemble is great by itself. And in between spots. ect...

Tricks and substitutions are fine but it's only a question of time before you'd reach your limitations if you're looking for the strings to soar. Apparently Mat has a guy who will do a midi track for him. Swell guy! [[;)]]

I agree,

If you havn't spent the money yet. the big strings swell is the ultimate to have. Also if you have Garriton's strings, The ( CLO SUSR WXR ) patch is the only one that can stand up to VSL. Very Lush. But of-course not dry.

Unfortunately I only have the Personal Orchestra. the strings aren't as good as the GOS. I am pretty sure i will end up buying the Orch Strings - I don't like to do things half a$$- I just need to hear them to be sure.

Adn yes Guy....he IS a swell guy to that for me!! [[;)]]

I just recently got Chamber Strings, also. They were great on the first project I used them on--a rock thing, where they seemed to cut through the mix really well. However, I'm working on a pop ballad now, and having a hard time getting the chamber strings to sound full and rich enough. I had thought that if I played the part multiple times, it would sound like a larger section (i.e., 6 violins chamber strings x 3 takes = 18 violins), but it doesn't seem to work, even if I try to pan the different takes to try to simulate the players taking up a larger space. Anyone have any tips for making Chamber Strings sound Orchestral?

-Peter

Yeah, right. It doesn't sound richer because you're repeating the EXACT same recorded sound. No way out, unfortunately.

@Guy said:

Yeah, right. It doesn't sound richer because you're repeating the EXACT same recorded sound. No way out, unfortunately.

Hi Guy and Peter
No way out? > Don't become disheartened!
It is correct that the three records play exact the same samples.

But try to delay the second and the third some ms.
Proposal:
1st Track > Delay 0ms
2nd Track > Delay 15 ms
3rd Track > Delay = 30ms
Fiddle around with different delays > Best sound at...?

Another possibility:
Try to use for example a light chorus effect for Track 2. For Track 3 you also can take the chorus effect - but with other parameters. These three different track outputs increase the ensemble-effect in the total mix, I'm sure. While mixing the three tracks together you have to reduce the volume of the two chorused tracks perhaps (try -3dB?, -6dB? each). Trying is free of charge!

I wish you success
Beat Kaufmann

1 tip you can try:

Copy your chamber violins midi track in your sequencer and slightly change some of the timings of the notes. Then transpose the copy of your chamber violins midi track up 1 whole step. Then pitch down a second instance of the chamber violins VI by 1 whole step with the pitch wheel. Combine the original track with this pitch shifted version. This will avoid any phasing issues and will make the first violins sound much fatter.

Best,
Jay

Thanks for the tip Jay

I can't get the Chamber String to respond to the pitch bend. I have the pitch bend set to 2oo cents, but it's not working. The track is receiving the midi - it recorded it - but the sound is not chamging pitch!

Any ideas why?

Right click on the big "pitch" knob on the lower left side of the instance. Choose "learn" then move your pitchwheel on your midi keyboard. That should do it.

--Jay

Thanks Jay, went brain dead there for a moment [:O]ops:

...or buy the orchestral strings. [H]

Guy, funny! I was just emailing you to thank you and say I'll be ordering the Orch Strings 1 tomorrow - thanks to you - do you think they'll give you a commission? [:D]

Nevertheless, for curiosity sake - I tried Jay's suggestion-as well as detuning the pitch bend so one was about 7 cents sharp, one 7 cents flat - it definitely fattened up and opened up the sound. If you can't afford the Orch Strings - that seems to be the best option.

I didn't find delaying the tracks to be of much benefit and chorusing was artificial sounding.

Thanks to all who helped and thanks Guy for your time!

My pleasure.

No, no commission, but herb promised me the Queen Elizabeth foghorn bassoon. [:D]

A small sidenote - it is a good habit to avoid equal amounts of detuning (like +7/-7) as you will run into audible artifacts more likely than with non-equal values. The Fibonacci-series is a good start for "clever" combinations of detuning amounts:

-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci_number
-> http://www.mcs.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/R.Knott/Fibonacci/fib.html

HTH,

Hi Dietz,

In actuality, I de-tuned one up 8 cents and one down 5 cents - just didn't feel right to do it symmetrically - that's why I said "about 7 cents". I wanted to keep things less articifial. So would that be in line with what you feel would be acceptable - regarding the Fibonacci-series? Or do you think it should be run through an lfo that would randomize the detuning?

Very good input, by the way. It's these small changes that make the track 'feel' better and can be used in many things for music tracks.

5 and 8 is a wise choice, according to the Fibonacci-series. Additional randomization by means of an LFO is another good idea, as long as you find a way to modulate the speed of the modulation itself, too.

Thanks Dietz,

That's interesting to know, 'cause in the past when I would try this it never really sounded good, probably because of what you're saying.

Hi,
Wouldn't it be possible to use the same midi file and substitute different VI samples (reconstitute matrix?) thus making it a different performance?
Also if you've got separation between instruments vary panning and as you've already done change ambiance (different reverb program or variation in room size). Also there are some good doubler plug-ins (waves doubler is one) that will accomplish what detuning would attempt to do but in a more sofisticated manner. Remember the story about how John lennon hated doubling his vocals and the Abbey Road guys came up with ADT (auto double tracking)?....same principle.