In need of EQ tips

[damoy]

Hi all,

I've been trying to get a VSL Cello and VOTA Women's choir mix going with the Cello section just behind the choir. I can't get it to sound right. They both sound great separately, but when combined some of the key string frequencies seem to get masked and the result isn't any good. Has anyone tried this with success? I would die for some pointers that would at least get me going in the right direction (possibly eq scenarios)?

Thanks in advance...

[tattie]

Damoy,

I think I can hear what you are trying to achieve -

I have used the following technique in the past - I can't promise that they will work for you but you might like to give it a try.

EQ on the Chior should be very broad - I would keep this dry on the CS and post fade send to an Aux Bus and apply EQ to that - with this method you can push or pull the chior with the Aux Fader.

For the Celli I would again keep the CS dry but this time I would send to two or even three Aux busses - on each of these busses I would band each EQ Aux 1 LOW Range - Aux 2 MID Range - and Aux 3 HIGH Range each within the natural frequency range of the instrument and at the compass point of the timbres. The trick is to get the slopes of each separate EQ to match the slope of the preceeding band. (Its easier to do than explain)

What you end up with here is two or three separated "bands of sound" that you can mix to suit your needs.

When mixing using samples I try and mimic what I would do when mixing live - For the Celli this could be as many as 20 microphones at the desk - I have had no real experience with Chiors but I have seen these mic'd with overhead arrays.

Instrument Specific Reverb can also help to give 'depth of field' to close timbres - but this has to be used sparingly.

A good tip is to use an analyser (Like PAZ) and look at the phase relationship.

Another useful tool is a Stereo Imager (Like WAVES S1) - this enables you to better place the "Sound" in its real place in the overall picture.

I do not know for sure - but looking at the pictures I have seen Herb and the team sampled optimally each instrument set around a Zero pan point (ie not in its normal orchestra position) - this makes perfect sense and allows the user to place the timbre where it is required. What we have to do (and this is big part of the fun) is use our tools to paint the overall phase relationship we require.

hope this helps

tattie

[Dietz]

Impressing scenario, Tattie! 8-] Thanks a lot for sharing.

***

To Damoy -

I think that the frequency-range between 2 and 4 kHz is what causes your problem. Try to find the spot where both tracks have there maximum in this area, and lower it in the one you want to have "behind" the other. A usual fix would be to cut as much as 4 or 5 dB at 2.5 kHz with a Q of half an octave on a string-section, but given the fact that a choir will usually have much formant-content at around 4 to 4.5 kHz, you should try to make corrections in this range, too.

HTH,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

[damoy]

Thanks for the great information guys. I'll give these things a try later today. Hopefully it will breathe life into my dying mix. [:D]

[tattie]

Hi Dietz and Damoy,

Would be delighted to send you a CD demonstating this rather unorthodox EQ method.

tattie

[Dietz]

Yes, please!

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library