Faster more subtle portamento?

[Christian Marcussen]

Hi. I was playing with the solo violin VI while listening to Shindlers Liste. It occured to me that many of the slides in the peice were faster and more subtle that what I could achive with the VI. So I was wonder if

a) Anyone has any tips on acheiving this?
b) If VSL plan on recording fast portamentos?

I tried using Zigane as well but while its faster its definately not more subtle. I'm talking about a slide speed somewhere between the regular legato patch and the portamento patches. Has anyone else stubled upon this problem? It seems that the portamento patch calls a little too much attention too itself.

Thoughts?

[DG]

@Christian Marcussen said:

Hi. I was playing with the solo violin VI while listening to Shindlers Liste. It occured to me that many of the slides in the peice were faster and more subtle that what I could achive with the VI. So I was wonder if

a) Anyone has any tips on acheiving this?
b) If VSL plan on recording fast portamentos?

I tried using Zigane as well but while its faster its definately not more subtle. I'm talking about a slide speed somewhere between the regular legato patch and the portamento patches. Has anyone else stubled upon this problem? It seems that the portamento patch calls a little too much attention too itself.

Thoughts?

Ha, ha, ha I've been saying this for years........... [:D]

I have made a suggestion to Paul about a" DG portamento patch", but we'll have to see whether or not they have time to program it. If you want to hear my mp3 suggestions then PM me an email address and I'll send them to you.

DG

[JBacal]

Try the "sul" patch. This is faster than the zigane and sometimes subtler.

You can also try a very smal pitch bend at the beginning of the note.

But you can never have too many slide (and vibrato) choices. [:)]

Best,
Jay

[herb]

Check out the attack slider (value around 65 to 70).
You can add a controller on the mainpage and rising up the attack whenever you need a more subtle slide, or set the attack in a cell directly to a value of your choice, than switch to this cell whenever you need a lighter slide.
You can also setup 3 to 4 cells with the same articulation (zigane or portamento), each cell gets a higher value of the attack control (50, 60, 70. 80).
This is also helpful to get randomisation if you need portamento between the same intervalls more than once in a short period.

best
Herb

[DG]

@herb said:

Check out the attack slider (value around 65 to 70).
You can add a controller on the mainpage and rising up the attack whenever you need a more subtle slide, or set the attack in a cell directly to a value of your choice, than switch to this cell whenever you need a lighter slide.
You can also setup 3 to 4 cells with the same articulation (zigane or portamento), each cell gets a higher value of the attack control (50, 60, 70. 80).
This is also helpful to get randomisation if you need portamento between the same intervalls more than once in a short period.

best
Herb

Yes, this certainly helps to make it more subtle, but it still all happens on the same string, which for some intervals is very rare on Violin and Viola (not so much on Cello though).

DG

[herb]

Most of the larger intervalls of the zigane slides are not on the same string.

best
Herb

[DG]

@herb said:

Most of the larger intervalls of the zigane slides are not on the same string.

best
Herb

OK, I'll have a closer look next week. Thanks for taking the time to answer these points; it is appreciated.

DG

[DG]

@herb said:

Most of the larger intervalls of the zigane slides are not on the same string.

best
Herb

Hi Herb, I think that we were sort of talking at cross purposes, but I have checked out your suggestions.

The solo violin Zigane slides are much more useable (to me) than the portamento because, as you say, they often happen across two strings. Unfortunately the perf ones don't happen over an octave interval so I still have to fake those (with the grace note Zigane patches).

I have tried altering the attack/delay on various cells and it doesn't sound great. It would help if you could provide a demo (a few notes only) with MIDI file and matrix so that I can see exactly why mine doesn't really work.

I have a problem with chamber violin perf Zigane. It sounds exactly the same as the portamento, although the patch says Zigane. Please can you check this? The grace note ones exist, so this works like the solo violin.

There are no Zigane patches for the orchestral violins, so these also have to be faked.

One last thought. As the Zigane patches are not looped I assume that we need to do some sort of cell xfade to a sustain. It would be useful if the sustains were programmed by VSL as I would rather be hitting keyswitches and playing with controllers for things that are different for every occasion, than just to get a sustained note to sound longer.

DG

[Christian Marcussen]

@DG said:

I have a problem with chamber violin perf Zigane. It sounds exactly the same as the portamento, although the patch says Zigane. Please can you check this? The grace note ones exist, so this works like the solo violin.

Mine to IIRC

[herb]

@Another User said:

One last thought. As the Zigane patches are not looped I assume that we need to do some sort of cell xfade to a sustain. It would be useful if the sustains were programmed by VSL as I would rather be hitting keyswitches and playing with controllers for things that are different for every occasion, than just to get a sustained note to sound longer.

In the beginning I've mapped a stacked auto-crossfade version, but this worked especially for some intervalls of the solostring no so well.

But you have the option to trigger a repetition sample, that is normal bowchange, and I think this is the best and most natural sounding option.
A tip for live performing: the repetition on the same key works best if you use the sustain pedal to avoid a gap between the notes.

best
Herb

[DG]

@Another User said:

In the beginning I've mapped a stacked auto-crossfade version, but this worked especially for some intervalls of the solostring no so well.

But you have the option to trigger a repetition sample, that is normal bowchange, and I think this is the best and most natural sounding option.
A tip for live performing: the repetition on the same key works best if you use the sustain pedal to avoid a gap between the notes.

best
Herb

OK, I'll try this later this week when I have more time. Thanks....

DG