Plowman,

My apologies for not getting back any sooner. I had a session this afternoon and then it seemed like the forum was down for several hours after that.

Yes, the dongle was not happy in my USB hub that I hang off the front of the G5 that I use for a dongle farm. It is a USB cable that goes to a non-powered recepticle with four more USB ports. 'Non-powered' is probably the operative word here. (Although the back of the Mac keyboard really should be considered a non-powered device also - however it hangs off a powered hub.)

I have another 5 port powered USB hub that I use that hangs off the back off the G5. It actually runs about 30' from the room where I keep my computers out to my control room. I would have liked to use it to house the Syncrosoft dongle but it is completly full with communication stuff (keyboard, wireless mouse, monitor extenders, etc.).

The keyboard, well... fortunately it has four zone/groups and I simply chose another one and am currently using it for a workaround. I'll take a look at your Transformer idea in my Autoload environment. The manual on the M-Audio is next to useless. I'd have to look long and hard in Tucson to find anyone that knows anything about it. Even though there are over a million people here now it's not a thriving audio/technology center.

However, the VI is raving splendid! I look forward to going through the Solo Strings tutorials in the next few days. I don't even feel compelled to load the rest of the strings & woodwinds right now. I just want to learn the interface and then widen the palate when ready.

Best wishes,
Jack

Yes, the board seemed to be down most of the evening.

That's good news all around. As installations go, your dutiful research and a short if timely delay (to gather ground reconnaisance) served you well.

"Dongle farm." Get along, little dawgies.

I have an M-Audio Delta 1010. Whenever I've called tech support, they've been helpful and (relatively) prompt to take the call. (626) 633-9055, 7 to 7, Pacific Standard Time.

Oh oh... I just read up on the Pro Keys. That looks like one Logic-friendly, VI viable, easy-access-to-multiple-arts keyboard. Plowman just found another reason to increase his debt.

Tell me, can you choose Logic tracks via the Pro 88? Clearly you can choose MIDI channels, but I'm wondering about the remote selection of actual tracks. It's my chief (and sometimes my only) use for Logic Control.

You have Logic Control? I recently ordered one & two expanders. They haven't arrived yet. I record and mix in Pro Tools but do my MIDI composition in Logic so I wanted something that was relatively friendly to both. Any commentary on it?

I notice you say that you use them mainly for track selection. I would need the faders for mixing.

As far as the keyboard knowledge is concerned, I'm a lightweight in that area. I don't really know if you can select tracks or not. I certainly plan to call M-Audio with the number you supplied to fix my current problem. Maybe they could point you in the right direction also.

The Keystation Pro 88 has a lot of sliders and switches and consequently it is as large as an aircraft carrier. I guess most 88 note controllers are. I have been thinking of changing to another myself. You might want to check this out: http://www.djdeals.com/novationREMOTE61SL.htm
or the Novation site itself. I realize that the largest version of this is 61 keys and C is the lowest note - meaning that to access A0 and B0 for VI it would be necessary to transpose two octaves down. But it's so ergonomically appealing and it maps automatically to Logic 7.1 (and this month to the latest version). In addition to the mod wheel & pitch bend it has an XY controller pad that should be great for VI.

Also for me, if these 3 Mackie controllers ever show up there would be a long distance between my eyes and the monitor screens. The Novation SL would take up a lot less room. I like to use gear, not see it or have it get in the way.

Hey, maybe I'll have a keyboard to sell to you. I'm reasonable.

As our thread merrily digresses...

It's so curious that you bring up sightlines and distances, because that is my chief concern with Logic Control. In fact, as I sit here, looking at three CRT monitors, my LC is at lap-level to my left on a roller cart -- not an ideal place for mix faders or a transport. But the three CR-Tanks and the relatively deep LC will allow it no other way. Directly in front of me, I have a control matrix for a very old controller (Elka MK8[H], so the real estate which is most accessible is already claimed. I fully understand the Novation's appeal in this light.

No doubt you have flat-panel displays. That helps. On an extender arm, you can allow the monitor to float forward, physically in front of the LC but not occluding its LCD.

With CRTs and the LC in front of you, the monitor is so far back, you have to run at 800 x 600 to read it, and to me that's prohibitive in Logic. Hence, LC to the lower left.

On Pro Tools, I imagine LC (meaning the Mackie) will serve you very well.

In Logic, LC butts up against a mixing idiosyncracy I have -- I resist automation unless I'm on deadline. If you're constantly shaping notes, copying regions, and working through multiple layers of MIDI controller data within regions, the mouse and Qwerty keyboard remains the fastest way to work. LC is best suited to track-based automation.

(I make this rather obvious point because there was literature on the LC when it premiered that said something like "Throw your mouse away." Well, don't throw your mouse away.)

If patience allows, you might want to crack open the main unit, play with it for a week or so, and make sure it flows with your style before opening the two expander units.

As a postscript, I will say that LC's have held their value well in the last four years, still selling on eBay at about three-fifths of what I paid.

What kind of load times are you getting with VI?

Loading times:

Solo Strings Vl L1 Articulation Combi 26 sec.
Solo Strings Vl L2A Perf-Universal 40 sec.

Mind you I'm not loading a full Logic Arrange Page with instances of VI at this point - just doing tutorials on the GUI. I would hope that I can load about 24 instances of VI once they're RAM optimized to 10-15% of the maximum in 3-4 minutes.

Yes, I have a pair of 23" LCDs on a pair of floorstands with casters so they can move vertically, horizontally and change their viewing angle. For the past few weeks I've had them at the distance they will be once the Mackies are installed. They are at 1920x1200 resolution. At first they were a tad hard to see but I've adjusted. I plan to have the Mackies on the same type of floorstands once they arrive. So I don't even have a console table. The Keystation Pro88 is in front of the Mackies on a low keyboard stand.

Do you have any more thoughts about the Novation SL61?

Casters. Yeah, we think alike. Sometimes I think my whole life is on casters and jump drives.

I'm assuming those load times do not include the instantiation of the Vienna plug-in. I ask only because, well, I like to use the word "instantiation."

"Do you have any more thoughts about the Novation SL61?"

I do have two thoughts about the Novation, given what you've told me. A: redundancy with your Mackies. Perhaps we can never have enough buttons, knobs, and faders, but with all the great new VI gear coming out, money may be better spent elsewhere. You can control a whole lot of stuff on these LC units.

And B: I'm cautious with dimensions here. The Novation LCD's (along the back of the faceplate) would require that the Mackies sit even further back, at least ten inches from the fromnt of the Novation. The pan pot of a Mackie channel strip is thirteen inches from the the front of *that* unit. Add a general seven inches to sit away from the keyboard (to play it comfortably) and conceivably your pan pot is thirty inches deep. You can fudge some of this with height ratios and whatever stacking the units allow, perhaps. But the fact remains -- LC's are a mixing tool designed for immediate desktop access.

But you know what you're doing. New Mackie Controls. Vienna Instruments. Exciting times.

In Logic it takes 6 sec. to instantiate the AU plug and 3 sec. more after clicking on the GUI button for the VI to show up (sans any matrix or patch data).

Are those the numbers you were looking for?

Yeah, I think i'll just keep the hulking large Keystation 88 and simply roll it out my way when I'm not composing. That way the Mackies will be intimately accessible. Of course, the keyboard stand is the only thing without casters right now.

I hope that no one else makes the same mistake I did the first time I openned up VI inside of Logic. I had read somewhere on the forum that it might take 10-20 minutes for it to open the first time. So I clicked on it, didn't see anything and thought I'd be smart by openning the Activity Monitor to make sure that something was happending. So I did and it seemed like there was a process or two that inidicated something was going on. So I waited 30 minutes and still nothing happended! Only to discover that the VI openned up behind my Arrange page and was probably happily waiting for me to discover it for half an hour.

Motto: Don't spend too much time reading this forum.

"...the VI openned up behind my Arrange page...."

Wow. I can't get my VI to open behind *anything.* It is the epitome of a float window. Perhaps you're referring to the standalone, which I haven't run yet.

I'm curious to know the load times peple face when they have an average of ten VI's in a Logic song. As I've posted before, I'm looking at a boot of about fourteen minute overall. If I open consecutive songs, the load time is lower because (I'm assuming) the VI software has already been launched. But the data has to be re-loaded, even if the patches were the same from the previous song. We have no "keep common samples in memory" option with VI.

Golem's 1.04 with "faster load times" has me hopeful.

Yes the AU VI definitely openned behind my Arrange window. Please take heed that in my Autoload I have two Arrange windows. It was constructed for the the old Cube & Performance Set so I have a template of the main instrument tracks and several hidden tracks for each main instrument. For example, Vln1 displays and 9 other tracks following it are predesignated for other Vln1 articulation tracks with the proper bussing all ready for the insertion of a new EXS VSL articulation. This is Arrange window #2 and is nested behind Arrange window #1 which is the same thing with all the extra tracks hidden.

The AU VI was behind both Arrange windows upon openning.

Later on today I might have the time to try openning several VIs simultaneously. What would you like me to do to help you with a loading times test?

I'll also play with the 'float' nature of the GUI to see what is going on.

I have taken heed, but still I'm amazed. I think it was JWL who had also mentioned the VI "top float window no matter what" behavior. I've yet to cover it with anything. I mean anything. I can't even drag Transport over it. I had to close the VI GUI to write this post.

Your offer to test load times is gracious. But with 1.04 available, the point is moot. i've already powered up for the evening. But tomorrow I'll load 1.04 and compare load times with my previous, standard fourteen minutes.

I'm glad you're sticking with the KeyStation. Once you start using the Mackies, you'll be better equipped to make a good keyboard purchase. Cheers.