Hi Guys.....

Jumping on on the tail end of this one..... I have a couple of quick questions on the whole RAM / PC thing.

I want to updgrade my setup and purchase some slave computers. I use a G5 for my Main DAW - the slave computers are either going to be PC's (for Pro Ed in Giga 3 or VI's in Bidule Plogue) or G5's (for VI's only)

Q1. Am I right in assuming that no matter if I am using on a slave PC running Giga 3 (for the Pro Edition) or Bidule Plogue (for VI hosting) I am going to run into this 2GB RAM limitation? In other words is a PC only capable of allowing ANY app (GIGA 3 /SONAR/CUBASE / Bidule Plogue) to see just 2GB of RAM - unless I do the system tweeks you are all discussing to get it up to around 3GB?

Q2. If this is the case - on one machine could I install Bidule Plogue and get this app. to access 3 GB with a couple of my VI Library and also install GIGA 3 and have this app also access 3GB (meaning a total of 6 - 8 GB of physical RAM installed??) - would the PC do this - (I am thinking of some of the higher end CARILLON computer range.)

Assuming I go the Slave MAC G5 route - apparently I will get access to 3 - 3.5GB (approx) of RAM with Bidule Plogue. SO just trying to weigh up which way to go

PC's would be cheaper but the Mac route gets me a slight edge on the 2 GIG RAM ceiling therefore more power.

Am I missing anything - Any thoughts???

Thanks for you input

PaulM

@Another User said:

Q2. If this is the case - on one machine could I install Bidule Plogue and get this app. to access 3 GB with a couple of my VI Library and also install GIGA 3 and have this app also access 3GB (meaning a total of 6 - 8 GB of physical RAM installed??) - would the PC do this - (I am thinking of some of the higher end CARILLON computer range.)
PaulM

Giga3 uses kernel memory, so the most you will get is about 1.1Gb. Having done the memory tweaks to make this possible there are users who are loading another 1.3Gb in applications such as V-Stack, although it didn't work for me (for various irrelevant reasons).

There is no point in trying to get more than 4Gb RAM (and the last GB is mostly useless) as you can't use more than about 2.8Gb for sample loading however you look at it. If you machine is going to be a slave and nothing else, then the specs don't actually have to be that high, as you're likely to run out of RAM long before the CPU complains. This decision can be made when you have finalised your choice.

DG

EDIT: I obviously didn't read DG's post before answering... [:)]

Q1: The default is a maximum 2GB per process period. With the /3GB boot switch and an LAA application (as discussed in the first post) you're able to get it up to 3GB per user-mode process. The process in this case is the host, so no matter how many instances of VSTi's you add in your host the theoretical maximum is 2GB (or 3GB of course).

Q2: The short answer is...no. There are several hindering things:
1. 32-bit XP only recognizes 4GB to start with.
2. GigaStudio which is the exception here is a kernel-mode app and will suffer heavily from the 3GB switch as it will be on the losing side of the memory split.
3. With GS3 you're so far able to get a maximum of 1.1GB per machine whatever you do. The new VST implementation of GigaStudio, GVI, will change all this though as it will run completely in user-mode just like everything else and will thus benefit from the /3GB tweak.

Go with whatever you feel comfortable with is my motto. Personally being a zero as far as Macs go I'd get myself a PC with 64-bit hardware which will be possible to upgrade to 64-bit XP when the apps and not the least drivers are ready for it.

/Mattias

@Another User said:

Q2. If this is the case - on one machine could I install Bidule Plogue and get this app. to access 3 GB with a couple of my VI Library and also install GIGA 3 and have this app also access 3GB (meaning a total of 6 - 8 GB of physical RAM installed??) - would the PC do this - (I am thinking of some of the higher end CARILLON computer range.)
PaulM

Giga3 uses kernel memory, so the most you will get is about 1.1Gb. Having done the memory tweaks to make this possible there are users who are loading another 1.3Gb in applications such as V-Stack, although it didn't work for me (for various irrelevant reasons).

There is no point in trying to get more than 4Gb RAM (and the last GB is mostly useless) as you can't use more than about 2.8Gb for sample loading however you look at it. If you machine is going to be a slave and nothing else, then the specs don't actually have to be that high, as you're likely to run out of RAM long before the CPU complains. This decision can be made when you have finalised your choice.

DG

OK....thanks DG - that is useful info-

So - The MAC route looks more expensive but I get slightly more RAM usage whereas with the PC route I could possibly make up for loss of RAM usage by buying another machine with the money saved.....

I also have to say that I like the way you have your computers hooked up (FXTeleport) looks like a real elegant solution...I am on Logic 7 as a sequencer so MY DAW has to be a MAC....and seeing as there is no news about the OSX version of FXT I am a little snookered. - OK

Finally - one more for you - When the entire library (all 10 VI's) finally emerges will you still use GS3 on any machine (I presume you are now) to host your Pro LIbrary or do you think you will go completely VI for everything - just wondering....I am totally blown away by the VI's - so intuitive - amazing.

@Mattias Henningson said:

EDIT: I obviously didn't read DG's post before answering... [:)]

Q1: The default is a maximum 2GB per process period. With the /3GB boot switch and an LAA application (as discussed in the first post) you're able to get it up to 3GB per user-mode process. The process in this case is the host, so no matter how many instances of VSTi's you add in your host the theoretical maximum is 2GB (or 3GB of course).

Q2: The short answer is...no. There are several hindering things:
1. 32-bit XP only recognizes 4GB to start with.
2. GigaStudio which is the exception here is a kernel-mode app and will suffer heavily from the 3GB switch as it will be on the losing side of the memory split.
3. With GS3 you're so far able to get a maximum of 1.1GB per machine whatever you do. The new VST implementation of GigaStudio, GVI, will change all this though as it will run completely in user-mode just like everything else and will thus benefit from the /3GB tweak.

Go with whatever you feel comfortable with is my motto. Personally being a zero as far as Macs go I'd get myself a PC with 64-bit hardware which will be possible to upgrade to 64-bit XP when the apps and not the least drivers are ready for it.

/Mattias

Thank you Mattias - good advice - cleared up a few issues.....

So I am hearing that a combination of a 64XP and GVI would be pretty amazing as far as RAM access and future compatibilty is concerned - actually WHATEVER app I choose (Bidule Plogue / VStack etc etc) I am getting an uplift in RAM access due to 64bit XP seeing more physical RAM - correct?

thank you....PaulM

Any ideas on 'when' 64 bit will be commercially ready. I have some machines 6 months old - some 2.5 years old. Can they all convert to 64 bit OK?

I imagine that all four slots will be converted to 2 gig sticks?


Rob

@PaulM said:

So I am hearing that a combination of a 64XP and GVI would be pretty amazing as far as RAM access and future compatibilty is concerned - actually WHATEVER app I choose (Bidule Plogue / VStack etc etc) I am getting an uplift in RAM access due to 64bit XP seeing more physical RAM - correct?

Almost. When everything finally is 64-bit, that is OS, host apps etc you won't have to bother about the limits for a while so that's correct. If you're using a 32-bit host application in 64-bit XP and the host app is LargeAddressAware (as described in the top post) you will be able to load up to 4GB rather than 3GB like today as the OS itself won't have to squeeze itself into any 4GB XP limit as it is now... That requires that you actually have more than 4GB RAM of course.

/Mattias

@Rob Elliott said:

Any ideas on 'when' 64 bit will be commercially ready.

It is commercially ready given that you have the right components. The biggest problem right now is sound card drivers but they are coming out one after one now. There are other things like FXTeleport, MoL and things like that that can stop the show, but I THINK it's fully possible to use XP64 on slaves right now. Hosts are a problem right now, but the intermediary step with 32-bit apps and a 4GB limit should work fine. This is not anything I've tested so don't quote me on it... I actually planned to try it and I have XP64 and 64 bit hardware, but I don't have any sound cards with 64-bit drivers...

As far as 64-bit hosts go you're restricted to...Sonar right now I think. Sonar 5 which was released last fall includes both 32-bit and native 64-bit builds.

That said...you'll be living on the edge of technology if you go there now which is good and bad... I think the big 64-bit revolution will come when Vista is released.

/Mattias

@Another User said:

Finally - one more for you - When the entire library (all 10 VI's) finally emerges will you still use GS3 on any machine (I presume you are now) to host your Pro LIbrary or do you think you will go completely VI for everything - just wondering....I am totally blown away by the VI's - so intuitive - amazing.

I will be getting rid of GS3, but using GVI on one machine for all the stuff that VSL doesn't make. I will also still be using Kontakt and hopefully it will behave better in future than it does currently..!

DG

@Another User said:

Finally - one more for you - When the entire library (all 10 VI's) finally emerges will you still use GS3 on any machine (I presume you are now) to host your Pro LIbrary or do you think you will go completely VI for everything - just wondering....I am totally blown away by the VI's - so intuitive - amazing.

I will be getting rid of GS3, but using GVI on one machine for all the stuff that VSL doesn't make. I will also still be using Kontakt and hopefully it will behave better in future than it does currently..!

DG

Great...

MOL = Midi Over LAN - right?

...and thanks for all the info...most helpful...

Paul

@Mattias Henningson said:

What DG said. Unfortunately I don't have Samp myself so I can't test it. I have tested a couple of other hosts and haven't seen any problems though. I really doubt it would affect the dongle connection as you're just changing a single bit in the file header...

If you haven't used editbin before you might want to get my small Windows-based utility I wrote just some weeks ago which does the same thing with some additional features for LAA status checking. I'm currently updating my web site with information about it, but I haven't finished yet so it's not online... If you want it let me know and I'll send it to you.

/Mattias

Hi Mattias. I'm heading down this dark path today (wish me luck). I was wondering if your new app was ready? [:)]

http://www.musikbanken.se/laatidosetup.exe

I'm out gigging for two days now. Back on Friday if you have any questions.

/Mattias

Mattias, Where is your Laa ti do app? It's not on the Virtualinstrumentsmag site and your link above is dead. Help!!!

Thanks,
Jay

Sorry Jay, I've had a problem with my site...that's why it's not updated. It's on the Virtual Instruments Mag site now, but here's a direct link: http://www.musikbanken.se/laatidosetup.exe">http://www.musikbanken.se/laatidosetup.exe

/Mattias

Thanks, Mattias! Your utility worked flawlessly on Sonar 5. Have you tried it on Fx teleport? Or do I have to wait gor the programmer(s) to release a new version of Fx teleport?

Thanks,
Jay

There is a new version. If it's not on the site then email Max and he'll send it to you. FWIW I used the "hack" for a while and had no problems (this was before LTD).

DG

Thanks, DG.
Is "LTD" LaaTiDo ?[:O]ops:

--Jay

Yaaaaaaaaaaah.........

DG

I have 2 systems with 3GB memory. One (xp pro) is getting just over 2.7 GB of samples loading, the other (xp media) just over 2.6 GB. What can be causing the 100MB difference?

Best,
Jay

I certainly don't know. XP media probably have some apps running that pro doesn't have...but that was certainly a non-answer... [:)]