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  4. is there interest in a group buy of miniG enclosures?

  • is there interest in a group buy of miniG enclosures?

    H
    H
    Hi all,
    thanks to Julian i became attentive of the miniG enclosures for externel SATA drives which help to get an outstanding disk performance.

    http://www.transintl.com/store/category.cfm?Category=2600#top

    http://images.digitalmedianet.com/2005/Week_31/s5qbs5nq/story/minigall3.jpg

    Now, the problem is that those enclosures have no distributor in Europe, so that the charges of shipping etc. could be rather big.

    Now i emailed with them asking if they could think about a group buy of Europeans and the answer is that in that case they could even give quantity discounts.

    As most users of the VSL sureley would benefit of a really fast disk performance i think it would be cool if we could organize such a group buy!


    @Herb:

    Would there maybe be a chance that VSL helps in getting an "official" contact to the miniG in some way?

    Best:
    HTF


    PS: Regular price for an enclosure for 4 disks is 499 Dollars
  • M
    M
    HTF,

    I remember looking at these a while back, but had these reservations:
    New series Mac G5 only has PCI extended slots - these drives require PCI card slots or an external SATA connector (which I've never heard of Mac having).

    Can someone with more tech knowledge advise on this problem. I have an "older" G5 with PCI-X slots, but don't want to buy drives like this only to get be unable to connect them when I upgrade to a faster G5.

    I do like the idea of external drives that stay behind when your old Mac moves on....

    Regards - Colin
  • H
    H
    I found -with Julian's help - this adapter:

    http://www.sonnettech.com/product/tempo-x_esata44.html

    This works with PCI and PCI-X slots.

    For PCI express users they have e.g. the following:

    http://www.sonnettech.com/product/tempo_sata_e4i.html

    So, in worst case someone has to exchange the SATA adapter, but this
    doesn't concerns the miniG.


    Greets:
    HTF
  • cmC
    VSL Team
    cmC
    last edited
    last edited
    this looks nice ... but hold on:

    @Another User said:

    Do not install Seagate drives in miniG enclosures

    why this? couldn't find a detailed comment!
    499.- is pretty much for just an enclosure - no?
    christian
    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
  • M
    M
    @HTF:
    Thanks for those links. However it seems to me that the PCI Express card has only internal connectors, so you can't go out to the MiniG.

    @cm:
    You're right - the price is crazy. With 2 x 400 Gb drives it's $899, so the drives are cheaper than the box!
  • J
    J
    last edited
    last edited

    @Another User said:

    Do not install Seagate drives in miniG enclosures

    why this? couldn't find a detailed comment!
    499.- is pretty much for just an enclosure - no?
    christian

    Christian,

    I think there are 2 issues with the Seagate drives. 1. they require a greater current than other drives to run and 2. they run hotter than a number of drives.

    I think it is for these reasons that they were also excluded from recommendation for the various internal mounting bracket systems for G5's.

    My Mini g 4 enclosure unit does not have any heat issues with the drives I use as it has a single small low speed fan but with 4 hotter running drives this could be an issue. With regard to the power requirements I think this would mainly affect spin up of the drives - which in the Mini-G happens at the same time rather than staggered. For reference the power supply with my mini G i rated +5V 6 amps +12V 10 amps. This is an external block about 15cm x 8cm x 6cm.

    I'm not dissing the Seagate - just stating what I have read.

    For interest with 4 WD 4000KD drives (they are very quiet) mounted in a mini-g the total noise with the drives and fan running is I would estimate about 3-6dB quieter than a G5 at idle. Once you are about a 60cm to a metre from the G5 (if the Mini G is next to it) you cannot hear the Mini G in operation. I would say it has about the same idling sound level as a LACIE 500/600 Firewire drive and is quieter during disc access operations.

    Julian
  • S
    S
    SATA drive enclosures- unless they are sophisticated designs containing circuitry and controllers for advanced RAID levels - - consist basically of a place to mount drives, supply them with power and cool them. They do not contain bridge circuits, as do FireWire enclosures. A PCI card installed in the computer supplies the circuitry that controls the drives and connects them to the computer. PCI cards have various capabilities. Those from Firmtek, for example, provide separate channels for each drive and are compatible with running the drives as separate drives (JBOD = just a bunch of drives) or combining them into RAID Level 0 (striping) or Level 1 (mirroring). One could, for example, structure a 4 drive setup so that two drives were running as RAID 0 and two drives were either running as separate drives (JBOD) or as a mirror for the RAID 0 drives. More complex setups are possible with cards from other companies such as Highpoint whose cards enable RAID 5 as well as RAID 0 and 1. (RAID 5 - which combines striping and mirroring, has the advantage of being able to rebuild itself if any one drive fails.)RAID 0 is the fastest form of RAID but also provides the least data security. If, for example, one had a 4 drive RAID 0 setup, it would theoretically be able to read and write data at 4 times the speed of any one of its component drives. However if only one drive fails all the data is lost.

    In addition to these basic functions, drive enclosures differ in their features, some allow easy hot-swap capability - that is, each drive is fastened to a sled that can be withdrawn from the drive enclosure while the drive is turned on (of course this won't work if all the drives are part of a RAID 0 configuration), some have larger power supplies, more effective cooling systems, temperature indicators and alarms, digital readouts of drive conditions, some use the new Infiniband connector system which enables one cable to connect from an Infiniband equipped card to multiple drives in an Infinband equipped enclosure.

    Looking at what is available, it appears to me that the Mini G enclosures are vastly overpriced as they lack features that other products have at the same or lower price level. For example the Firmtek SeriTek/2eEN4 is cleverly designed so that it has no internal wiring: the drives plug in to sleds which, in turn plug into the enclosure’s back pane, the enclosure has heat sensors and indicators, two fans and a sufficient power supply to run 4 Seagate drives. MSRP is $399.95. You can check this out at

    http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/

    There are also various hot-swap capable enclosures available from Granite Digital at

    http://www.granitedigital.com/

    High point makes both RAID 5 capable cards some with eSATA connectors and one with an Infiniband connector and an Infiniband capable 4 drive enclosure which costs about $440 at newegg.com.

    You can checkout Highpoint products at
    http://www.highpoint-tech.com

    If you want the least expensive SATA drive enclosure you might look at the Mercury Elite dual SATA drive enclosure available at Other World Computing at

    http://eshop.macsales.com/

    This enclosure appears to have about the same feature set as the Mini G enclosure but costs $79.95 and is capable of running two Seagate (or any other) drives. (OWC is a good source of bare drives, drive enclosures and RAM at reasonable prices.)

    A new and interesting technology is available from Sonnet Technologies

    http://www.sonnettech.com/

    This involves cards (available as mentioned above, in both PCI-X adn PCIe versions) and an enclosure (Fusion 5000) that employ "port multiplier" technology. With these cards and the 5 drive Fusion enclosure, it is theortetically possible to run as many as 20 drives with one card.

    A word about Seagate drives: their published specifications indicate that they do require more power at startup than Hitachi, Western Digital or Maxtor drives (2.8 amps vs. 1.8 amps) – which is evidently why they are not recommended for use in the Mini G enclosure. This same characteristic means that they cannot be successfully used with the internal mounting brackets such as the G5 Jive bracket from Sonnet or similar brackets made by other companies. (The Mac’s power supply can’t handle the additional power demands of these drives.) On the other hand Seagate drives carry a 5 year warranty rather than the 3 year warranty given by the other manufacturers and their “Softsonic” technology makes them relatively quiet. Mounted in an enclosure with adequate power they work just fine.

    SoftRaid software might be of interest to Mac users as it allows one to implement complex RAID schemes which combine RAID 0 and RAID 1. I have not used it personally but it has a very good reputation for reliability.

    To learn more about this product check out:

    http://www.softraid.com/

    Finally you might want to check out tests of drives, PCI cards and enclosures at http://www.barefeats.com (Acording to their most recent tests (March 10, 2006), the fastest 500GB drive currently available is the new one from Western Digital).

    I hope this helpful.