@julian said:

Some sort of simple hardware controller with say switches and sliders/mod wheel type controls would be good. However any device would be compromised unless the data was recordable in the DAW as automation and editable within the same arrange track that the automation applied to.

Julian.

Of course, but there is nothing to stop one being able to program a device that sends exactly the same information as keyboards and MIDI controllers currently do, just in a different manner.

Regarding pitch information (to make the controller compatible with the current keyswitching), that's exactly what Sibelius does; sends MIDI pitch data via typing from the computer keyboard.

DG

Any control service can now be used with the midi learn function so why wait and why not customize your own setup untill the holy grail is found (or manufactured?)

@dpcon said:

Any control service can now be used with the midi learn function so why wait and why not customize your own setup untill the holy grail is found (or manufactured?)

I think this is what most of us are doing. The idea rose from this very process-- as most of us discovered the benefits of using more than 2 or 3 types of controllers on each matrix as our setups increase in complexity. For the controller I have, for example, the functionality is there, but it's generic layout gets confusing sometimes. I have limited buttons for on/off commands as it is laid out in VI, I have no faders (which would be helpful), and I've discovered that more than one feature works best with the mod wheel in any given matrix even though I only have one mod wheel at present.

It is true that IF there would ever be a 'VIC' it won't appear any time soon-- and perhaps not at all. The option is to buy another control panel, but at present none I've seen are close to ideal for VI's features, despite the fact that they are quite functional under the hood. I'm filling in these gaps by doing lots of manual editing rather than real-time concurrent input of notes and controller data.

It's a tough consideration since everyone will find their own ways of using VI that best suits their own needs. As we all continue to make the best of what we have it doesn't hurt to dream a little-- or does it?

@dpcon said:

Any control service can now be used with the midi learn function so why wait and why not customize your own setup untill the holy grail is found (or manufactured?)

I have already set up my sliders, but the real problem is trying to hit keyswitches and use sliders and all the rest at the same time. I was just interested to see if other people felt, as I did, that a controller designed with VI in mind would be handy.

DG

Maybe something like [URL=http://www.dv247.com/invt/26289/]This.[/URL]

DG

That's a thought-- an interesting combination of pads, faders and knobs programmable for a variety of reasons.

Hmmm. All it's missing is a breath and bow controller, cappuccino dispenser, and a Spongebob chewtoy.

@JWL said:

That's a thought-- an interesting combination of pads, faders and knobs programmable for a variety of reasons.

Hmmm. All it's missing is a breath and bow controller, cappuccino dispenser, and a Spongebob chewtoy.

Actually, it needs 12x12 pads, BC input and a few more faders to match the VI interface. Of course when MIR comes along it may all need to be changed, but at least this would be a start. In fact I may well buy one anyway.....

DG

Let us know how that goes.

Course I just stepped onboard with VI about a week ago, but I'm pretty sure that Trigger Finger will help implement all the control changes needed for realizing a convincing performance along with the keyboard. Picking one up today. Small footprint, USB without power supply transformer (or with), assignable everything within it's own PC software. Plus if you get the urge, start jamming some percussion parts. [[;)]]

@woodlakesound said:

Course I just stepped onboard with VI about a week ago, but I'm pretty sure that Trigger Finger will help implement all the control changes needed for realizing a convincing performance along with the keyboard. Picking one up today. Small footprint, USB without power supply transformer (or with), assignable everything within it's own PC software. Plus if you get the urge, start jamming some percussion parts. [[;)]]

Yes, I'm also looking at the Korg padKontrol. Apparently one can store up to 16 different configurations, which would mean that I could use the same pads with different keyswitches, so that low and high instruments would be controlled by the same pad, rather than keyswitching at the opposite ends of the keyboard.

DG

The Korg looks (well actually the pinkish looking pads in the pictures are ghastly :lol[:)] like quite a programming lalapolooza, but in keeping with the KISS principle, I must dissent.
I like the sliders on the Finger Trigger (and 4 of them as well) and there's enough other stuff knob wise to deal with. It's probably either will function wonderfully being that we are the weakest link in the chain...as usual [:D]

@woodlakesound said:

The Korg looks (well actually the pinkish looking pads in the pictures are ghastly :lol[:)] like quite a programming lalapolooza, but in keeping with the KISS principle, I must dissent.

Yes the pink looks horrid, but I was going to cover it up anyway.....! I will hope to check out both products early next week, so if you get there first do post a full report.

DG

The Trigger Finger is lacking a driver for Mac. Even though USB shows up in the Audio Midi configuration I cannot merge my keyboard and Trigger Finger into one. In my sequencer Digital Performer I can have two controllers working VI but not in stand alone mode. And practicing outside of the sequencer is important for me.
I may try the Korg unit. It has Midi Out as well as In. Trigger Finger only has Out.
I'm reading that the Korg has more comprehensive midi routing so my keyboard can be tied directly to it, making the choice in stand alone mode padKontrol. At least that is how I'm understanding it. I'll know sometime tomorow as I'm taking the Finger Trigger back and exchange for the padKontrol. Hello pink lights, actually not pink but a not too hideous red that displays controller function as opposed to note values. Also the onboard Y/Y pad can be used to morph two control functions. The video demo at the Korg site was working it as a speed/velocity controller for some pretty convicing real time drum fills. Should breath some life into the VIs for sure using.

@woodlakesound said:

Hello pink lights, actually not pink but a not too hideous red that displays controller function as opposed to note value

Methinks you're trying to convince yourself [:D]

DG

You betcha. [[;)]]

Can anyon efigure out if KORE and the VI would be a good mix for anything?

OK, I tried a Finger Trigger and some AKAI thing today.

Here's what I think:

Finger Trigger
Sliders were not very smooth although knobs felt OK (how gay is that?)
Pads felt slimy and actually made me feel a bit ill. I'm not getting this.

AKAI

Much cheaper, but the pads felt great; just the right amount of give and a slightly rough edge. Snag was only one fader and it was not very smooth at all. Not getting this either.

The Korg was not in stock, so I can't try it out until it is. However, to cheer myself up I did get a new Expression pedal [:D]

DG

Hey DG, at these price points faders are not going to be responsive to every nuance of touch. JL Coopers Fader Master 4/100 is about $700. Four 100mm throw faders, touch sensitive, no pads. That is about as good as it gets.
I didn't like the Korg except for the pad sensitivity (it's fun to look at as well with all the lights going on and off). The x/y touch pad is kinda interesting but I would prefer the faders on the Trigger Finger to it. You know, you can adjust the velocity curves on the Finger Trigger faders using the Enigma software app. I dunno, for the kind of work one needs them for I think they can work quite well. The pads, like the knobs (easy there big fella), can be programmed all kinds of ways and even though it's not great drumming controller, it will send program changes and a host of other functions if you want to program them in. Hell, for the $160 I paid for it I think I'm gonna go back and get it again after realizing it's not so bad. It was a previously returned item already discounted. One other plus on the TF side is that it is mountable on a mic stand and so, can be placed where your hand is most comfortable. The Korg doesn't have a mic thread underneath it so must be supported on a table surface.

However, I'm getting really excited [URL=http://www.midiworks.ca/products/product_details.asp?productid=25&categoryid=22&category=]now![/URL]

DG

To address another issue-- partially related, there is the matter of repetitive mouse and keyboard tasks which could be simplified by using this:

http://www.ymouse.com/xkeys/xkcontrol.php

Some people may have their mouse, monitor, computer keyboard in front of them with their keyboard controller. I have my monitor on a mixing desk. Between me and it is a mixing board. In front of that is a pullout shelf where my mouse and computer keyboard sit.

My keyboard controller sits 90 degrees to the console, so having a programmable task controller within a finger's reach has considerable appeal.