How is the market for audio engineers of classical music?

[Ben Johnson]

Not just for VSL, but for actual orchestral music. I'm wondering this because I'll be going to school for audio engineering this year, and while the principles they will teach will largely pertain to rock music and such, I've been reading about the horrors of grossly untalented and unprepared musicians coming through the studio and needing a studio musician to sit in on the session to record their parts.

That is why recording "real" musicians who know the concept of practice and discipline, who can play the crap out of their instruments, is a much more attractive option. And it is my assumption that talented musicians, ie: classical/baroque musicians, hired by an orchestra, are much more abundant than your average 20 year old in a band wanting to cut an album.

I'd also assume that the market for engineers of rock music is so saturated that it would be easier and less stressful to get work as an engineer for orchestral music, even though the space required and amount of equipment needed is greater than most modern music.

Although since classical music is obviously not as popular as modern music, there isn't as much money being thrown around by the record labels. Still, can a person make a decent living as a recordist for classical music?

[Angelo Clematide]

i don't think there is a "market" for recording engineers of classical music.

You may make a apprentienceship in a classical company, an orchestra who records repertoire, national broadcast, opera house, or a huge recording facility in a big town, i.e. Angel Studio London http://www.angelstudios.co.uk/ , who records orchestras etc., and learn the craft from the ground up.

.

[reid]

BC,

there's a classical engineer called Plush, who certainly seems to knows his onions, over on the Gearslutz forum. He's based in Chicago - why not PM him (http://gearslutz.com/board/member.php3?u=1794) and see what the story is in your area?

Best of luck

[rgames]

Most of the major classical music festival schools in the US (e.g. Tanglewood and Aspen) have audio recording spots. So yes, there are plenty of folks who focus on recording techniques for classical music.

http://www.aspenmusicfestival.com/index.cfm?method=sc.recording

http://www.bso.org/itemB/detail.jhtml?id=15400067&area=tgl

rgames

[christianobermaier]

Good advice from the other guys, I'll spice up the dispute a bit.

> I've been reading about the horrors of grossly untalented and unprepared musicians coming through the studio and needing a studio musician to sit in on the session to record their parts.

I have too, and i have seen *and* heard them. One of them had a French Horn and the other one a Viola. It was disgusting. Especially the Violist, i thought i heard the proverbial cat (the one whose gut the strings were made of) screeching and screaming. The horn player was not much better, at one time i considered filling the instrument with wax to bring it in tune...

On the other hand, i have worked with a lot of talented , skillful, prepared and disciplined musicians. They played instruments like electric guitar, drum kit and synthesizer even, and they played, you know, all that modern electrified stuff that they call music nowadays...

>That is why recording "real" musicians who know the concept of practice and discipline, who can play the crap out of their instruments, is a much more attractive option.
> I'll be going to school for audio engineering this year

What makes you think that those folks, be it so-called classical musicians or pop oriented session players would want to work with *you* who very obviously does not have neither the experience nor the knowledge under his belt that they do ? Take it from the well of wisdom that top level players want top level engineers, and the road to either top range classical engineer or top range pop engineer is a bumpy one either way.
Besides, calling a bassoon player with half a year's worth of practice a 'real musician', while a seasoned guitarist who plays the Nashville studio mile up and down daily therefore would be 'unreal' i.e. fake, is what i'd think of as pretentious bordering on the offensive. I hope that's not what you implied.

>And it is my assumption that talented musicians, ie: classical/baroque musicians,

Talented = classical/baroque ??? Ugh....must...not...respond...to...this....gnnnn...

> hired by an orchestra, are much more abundant than your average 20 year old in a band wanting to cut an album.

You truly have no idea, it seems. To become a musician who is paid for what he does (either classical or modern) takes talent and years and years of practice and endurance on top of it. To 'be in a band (which might as well be a string quartet, mind you) wanting to cut an album' is so easy that literally anyone can do it. Which, do you think, is the bigger crowd ?

You might want to consider rethinking your attitude and concepts towards what being a classical or modern musician comprises of.

Other than that, have fun.

Christian

show reel home page studio pics gear list

[JJP]

@B.C.Johnson said:

That is why recording "real" musicians who know the concept of practice and discipline, who can play the crap out of their instruments, is a much more attractive option. And it is my assumption that talented musicians, ie: classical/baroque musicians, hired by an orchestra, are much more abundant than your average 20 year old in a band wanting to cut an album.

Just to second Christian, there are talented and untalented musicians in any genre. I have been fortunate enough to work on projects with some of the top professional musicians in London, New York, and Los Angeles. I have met guitarists who will play virtually anything you can put in front of them on any guitar. I even saw a day in the studio when an internationally-known, established symphony orchestra had its takes replaced by superior takes from an orchestra of contracted studio session players. [[:|]]

Don't make the mistake of assuming that musicians are less or more talented just by the genre of music they play. They may end up making quite a fool of you when they show up at a session for a different genre! With regular session players this happens more than you might think.

[Ben Johnson]

@christianobermaier said:

What makes you think that those folks, be it so-called classical musicians or pop oriented session players would want to work with *you* who very obviously does not have neither the experience nor the knowledge under his belt that they do ? Take it from the well of wisdom that top level players want top level engineers, and the road to either top range classical engineer or top range pop engineer is a bumpy one either way.
Besides, calling a bassoon player with half a year's worth of practice a 'real musician', while a seasoned guitarist who plays the Nashville studio mile up and down daily therefore would be 'unreal' i.e. fake, is what i'd think of as pretentious bordering on the offensive. I hope that's not what you implied.

...

You truly have no idea, it seems. To become a musician who is paid for what he does (either classical or modern) takes talent and years and years of practice and endurance on top of it. To 'be in a band (which might as well be a string quartet, mind you) wanting to cut an album' is so easy that literally anyone can do it. Which, do you think, is the bigger crowd ?

I think you've missed my point...or I failed to explain it thoroughly enough. Does someone need to play Bach, or Chopin, or Berlioz to be classified as a musician? Absolutely not! There are plenty of talented musicians out there who play "modern" music. But GENERALLY, the individual who does have Bach, Chopin, or Berlioz in his repertoire is more disciplined and technically gifted than the individual who says "I own a guitar, therefore, I am a guitarist." There is a far greater abundance of the latter.

Do I think that immediately after college, I'll walk up to John Williams and say "I'm engineering your next record..."? Of course not.

But in this day and age, home recording is very gradually blurring the line between amateur and professional recordings. Quality tools are becoming more affordable, and as a result, engineers who specialize in cutting demos are losing work. Of course, if you put those tools, however effective, into unskilled hands, the end product will probably be unlistenable. Anyway, the point here is that the recording of large orchestras will never reach a consumer level, even if the only reason is due to the size of the space required to record. When I finish college, will I own a multi-million dollar studio equipped to record Beethoven's 9th? Absolutely not.

I guess my main point was that since the great majority of recording students are heading into rock/pop/hip hop/metal, I thought it might be more lucrative to set out on the road less-traveled and without the beastly deeds of the modern record label.

And if I knew exactly which direction to take, I wouldn't post such a question, right?

[Dietz]

@B.C.Johnson said:

[...] Do I think that immediately after college, I'll walk up to John Williams and say "I'm engineering your next record..."? [...]

[:D] ... I know about whole careers built on not much more than that, in the beginning!