You guys,

Every VSL user has given constructive criticism about the library. If someone says it lacks warmth - fine. Every musician I know is always talking about warming things up that are in digital formats. OTOH you can also say that the VSL sound is pristine and that this allows the user to deal with this natural sound in any number of ways. Personally I don't think they lack warmth but are just very immediate with incredible detail and resolution - but to each his own. Warm things up to your liking (which is adding a certain amount of noise or harmonic distortion - no?) We all do that in various ways.

My point is that honest criticsm happens here every day from all of us. The criticsm from that other developer was totally dishonest and flat untrue. The tone of his remarks revealed a very heavy agenda. I thought his remarks were spotty not spot on.

Stick around you guys, you're a lot of fun and have already contributed here so you're most welcome for any sincere dialogue.

@KubeImage said:

For the record, I agree with Thor on some of his points. He's not a bad guy. Just kinda stubborn like me. [:D]. I just say things out loud other people won't say. As a matter of fact, if I met Thor in person we'd probably hit it off very well.

Btw it's Kube (i)mage. Not KubeL mage lol.

...thanks man. We probably would hit it off very well and yes, I am a stubborn...Taurus ! ...hehe
[:O]ops:

@dpcon said:

You guys,

Every musician I know is always talking about warming things up that are in digital formats. ...(..).. Personally I don't think they lack warmth but are just very immediate with incredible detail and resolution - but to each his own. Warm things up to your liking (which is adding a certain amount of noise or harmonic distortion - no?

I agree with you in its core. But I am not talking about analog vs. digital...I am a digital fanatic and don't miss analog at all. And I am not talking about warming things up in the mixing stage. Its like saying, use a cheap mic pre for your vocal and just add warmth later to it. Some things need to be captured at the recording stage or they are gone. Once again, that is my opinion after having fu^ked many recordings and learning from it.

We are in the realm of subjectivity so I am not gonna argue my point any longer...can't argue about taste, right ?

Dpcon, I am very curious about your opinion on that oboe sustain in the VI Video Demo....do you call that pristine too ? I think its the cleanest phasing sound ever recorded...hehe (sorry for the sarcasm) - Do you not hear it ?

I respect your opinion so I would really like to know what you think about it and how a great mixer will get rid of that phasing sound. Well, we could add a lot of reverb but ...we can't, because we are talking about productions where you want your Orchestra to be pretty dry, hence VSL's advantage (recorded dry, ..ish)

Thanks for posting your opinions. This is a great discussion, eh ?

Best,

T

@dpcon said:

Personally I don't think they lack warmth but are just very immediate with incredible detail and resolution - but to each his own.

Is there any chance that some people might have the ear ever slightly more sensitive than others for these things, and these people are willing to help others on this forum by sharing this information without trying to to show any kind of superiority? Could this be an option?

This could easily be interpreted as if I'm saying: All the VSL users are tone deaf except me!(and Thor). I hope that won't be the case!!!
If we don't hear the same thing, obviously we can't undersatnd each other, it's like if we're talking in 2 different languages...

Oh oh...the interpretation experts are right now, stirring up an attack...attack of the clones...hehe

in all fun,

thor

Thor,

I haven't listened to that particular demo but I will and respond.

Keep in mind that up until VSL most libraries had lots of terrible sounding samples. VSL was the first to come out with a library that was virtually 100% usable. There were rare exceptions like the Vienna oboe which everyone complained about so VSL promptly released the French oboe which is lovely. That's why we like this company because they respond to constructive (and even nasty) criticsm.

If there are problems with the new release they will be addressed. Also we have all relentlessly called for a new level in strings because that's the achilles heal in all sample libraries and none of us are satisfied. Herb has announced and epic string session so the ball is rolling.

Yes we have a difference of opinion on the merits of the silent stage. As I said it is a compromise of sorts but not any kind of extreme negative to my ears anyway.

Cheers

@dpcon said:

Thor,

I haven't listened to that particular demo but I will and respond.

Keep in mind that up until VSL most libraries had lots of terrible sounding samples. VSL was the first to come out with a library that was virtually 100% usable. There were rare exceptions like the Vienna oboe which everyone complained about so VSL promptly released the French oboe which is lovely. That's why we like this company because they respond to constructive (and even nasty) criticsm.

If there are problems with the new release they will be addressed. Also we have all relentlessly called for a new level in strings because that's the achilles heal in all sample libraries and none of us are satisfied. Herb has announced and epic string session so the ball is rolling.

Yes we have a difference of opinion on the merits of the silent stage. As I said it is a compromise of sorts but not any kind of extreme negative to my ears anyway.

Cheers

You da man !

@Another User said:

Thanks for posting your opinions. This is a great discussion, eh ?

And now we've got past that extreme nonsensical stuff it's getting better.Objectivity is taking a hold, and that bodes well for an intelligent discussion.

Can't stay long (trying to finish a job) but i pose a question.

Given the differing views on the merits or otherwise of digital output, have any of you tried to add a 'tape' effect, or 'analogue' warmer to any of your VSL work?
What were the results?

And, Dave Connor wrote of the dribble Doug whateverhisnameis posted on his site.

Dave's totally correct. The information was incorrect, and presented in a format indicative of out and out envy and jealousy. I'll be frank.

Rightly or wrongly in your respective opinions, my past purchases of this or that have been based on the integrity of the developer or seller, and even if they've had a good product, if i sense they're 'tacky', or possessed of little integrity i won't buy. Fortunately, Doug's products fall way short of the mark (IMHO), so that's a dilemma i won't ever have to face. His behaviour was unacceptable, and i won't even bother to investigate or research any product he may be touting.


Lead on gentlemen, i'm enjoying the discussion, and learning much.

Regards to you all,

Alex.

Thor,

One of my ultimate test for warmth, is when my grandma comes over, if she sais, what's that instrument? That's not a good sign! [*-)]

@Guy said:

Thor,

One of my ultimate test for warmth, is when my grandma comes over, if she sais, what's that instrument? That's not a good sign! [*-)]

hehe...that's some funny sheit. [:D]

I always turn the heat up before my grandma comes over...for additional warmth.

For those of you who make a living with composing or music in general....

Aren't we lucky bastards ??? [:)]

My schedule is about to go crazy again so my week of rest is over (and xmas is right around the corner, Damn it !!) ...but hey, chatting with everyone here at the forum is a lot of fun...

I will miss you suckas...and will try to keep an eye on this thread because I heard its been nominated for ...Best Thread of the ..week !!...

then again...there is always the computer crash...where one can check out the forum in between ...

Keep up the constructive criticizm....and don't forget: Music is supposed to be fun. You could be working 9-5 at the local Bank...(ah,..instead of 8am-4am in the studio..hm..9-5 might not be soo bad after all...if I think about it..)

Be back lata...

[[:D]] [[:D]]

By the way...how do you post an mp3 on this forum ?

Since we can talk about sounds until we're dead - I decided why not just let the music speak for itself....

but I need somebodys help to post it...basically, I have taken the same four bars and let a bunch of libraries play - you can decide for yourself what sounds warm and what doesn't...

I have an mp3 and a screenshot of logic so everybody can see what 's going on.

Only if you are interested... Oh, out fo fairness I won't say which other ibraries are in use...its besides the point anyways...

lemme know...

thor

Actually, putting an MP3 here is something I also would like to know how to do.


I have some cool helicopter sounds... [:P]

So now that all are so relieved that everything is back to music, as opposed to sarcasm...

WHAT THE HELL WAS THE POINT OF THIS THREAD?

(That's no sarcasm by the way. A simple question.)

Thor and his obedient disciple here have made no points whatsoever. The room sound is bad, the room sound is o.k. VSL is bad, VSL is good. EWQLSO is better, EWQLSO is not better -----

what is your point? You have said absolutely nothing with many, many words. Say something meaningful. That is a simple, direct challenge for you. Say something that means something about music, samples, etc. Don't waffle, don't bullshit, just say something that has something which linguists call DENOTATION. Or SENTIENCE. Or THOUGHT PROCESSES...

@dpcon said:

There were rare exceptions like the Vienna oboe which everyone complained about

NOOOO..... I do love the Viennese oboe! [:D] (at least not everyone then hehe [H] )

Well, there you go and I wouldn't disagree. Nothing wrong with the instrument or the samples and I understand you loving it. My main point was that VSL responds to it's customers when there's even a percieved problem or even just an earnest request. The fact that there was no French Oboe which many are used to was the issue - not the quality of the samples etc.

@William said:

WHAT THE HELL WAS THE POINT OF THIS THREAD?


Thor and his obedient disciple here have made no points whatsoever. The room sound is bad, the room sound is o.k. VSL is bad, VSL is good. EWQLSO is better, EWQLSO is not better -----

what is your point? You have said absolutely nothing with many, many words. Say something meaningful. That is a simple, direct challenge for you. Say something that means something about music, samples, etc. Don't waffle, don't bullshit, just say something that has something which linguists call DENOTATION. Or SENTIENCE. Or THOUGHT PROCESSES...

BLACK or WHITE ! Well. to me everything is a bit more complex than that, sorry if that's too complicated for you.
I'll try to be more ONE AND ONLY OPINION WRITTEN IN CAPITAL LETTERS...ok ?

btw, where is the post where I say EWQLSO is better ....? ...hm...where do I say that VSL (as a whole) is bad ?? ...

I haven't seen anything that has something which linguists call DENOTATION. Or SENTIENCE. Or THOUGHT PROCESSES...coming from you Sir William...

[:D]

@William said:

what is your point?

I don't know if I'm about to go off-topic, but my point of view is that VSL guys came out with a product clearly conceived to replace, at least in most cases, a real orchestra.

I watched again the Universal Mode video: Synful is too limited for a comparison. For now, apart from VSL there are no other digital orchestras playable in real-time.

Honestly speaking, it doesn't seem an insignificant innovation...

Just one comment regarding one poster's so delicate style...cough! cough!

I think we all have the right to occasionally loose it and get out of line. I have done so. But when someone constantly harasses the same people post after post that is carrying it too far! People have the right to their own opinion on this forum. Say what you have to say but no need to get arrogant! Please respect that!

@Guy said:

Say what you have to say but no need to get arrogant!

Why not?

[6]