Hi Alex.

If it were any other company I agree with you. But this is VSL. And I'm suprised that we and up paying more than new customers. I'm not saying that we should have it cheaper. But its been a philosphy of VSL that you should not pay for the same sample twice. This is what we are doing. Yes we get a new VI - and it does indeed look great. And yes we get 24bit samples - not really a feature i'm jumping up and down about but ok - its a nice "feature". But is this alone enough to double the price? IMHO no - so lets hope the newly sampled material really kicks ass (ofcorse it will - but lets hope there is alot of it)

My point is, I can live with the abondoning of "dont pay for the same sample twice" policy.... but in doing so, it should be translated into something where old customers dont end up paying more for SC than new ones do.

Paul. Cant wait - I really hope there is some cool stuff in those lists!

Any idea when we can expect them?

I've yet to see an articulation list that tells exactly what extra we would get that's new. I'll reserve commenting on that until we get more info.

But a bigger problem that I already see with the lib, besides possible pricing issues, is that it's VST. If you
have a huge lib collection built up for Giga for instance, now you'll be forced to have to use both Giga and VST. This is going to be a distaster. Just what we need, another propritary format. The whole reason I don't use my EWQLSO hardly at all is because I have to forgo using giga on a machine if I want to use EWQLSO. It's just not worth dedicating one whole machine to just one lib when I have 100's of lib ready to load in giga in any combination that I may need.

Also, for those of us that use RTAS on our seq machine, we won't be able to use it unless we go through some kind of wrapper (another freaking distaster). At least if they had included RTAS, we would be able to access the lib on our macs and leave
the Giga's on the PC's.
It seems as if the powers that be didn't really think this thing all the way through. Me thinks a lot of VSL owners and current users aren't going to be extremely happy. I know I'm not jumping up and down clapping my hands like an idiot.

Well, two things to one point:

>>t a bigger problem that I already see with the lib, besides possible pricing issues, is that it's VST... Just what we need, another propritary format.>>

I agree with your dislike of propritary formats - I love open formats and always though that was the big + of VSL.
The VSL Instrument is not VST only though - also standalone - so you can run it on a different computer - if you have one (I only use one!). With one computer one can just install and pray. But there is so many things running at the same time, and VSL need an HD by itself anyways (in times of S-ATA HDs have their own busses), so it might not be that bad.

just my thoughts

best

I for one have avoided these new pianos packaged with their own players (the grand, etc.) because of the potential bugs. I have gone out of my way to buy content in the EXS format because IT WORKS all the time. Every update. All the time.

So this indeed has me concerned about VIs. I suppose the hidden blessing here is I won't be able to afford any of these updates any time soon so I'll be able to avoid the dreaded version 1.0 syndrome.

And even if it works great out of the box, what happens when we see Logic 8 or Apple's new OS code named Hyena?

Clark

@steff3 said:

Well, two things to one point:

>>t a bigger problem that I already see with the lib, besides possible pricing issues, is that it's VST... Just what we need, another propritary format.>>

I agree with your dislike of propritary formats - I love open formats and always though that was the big + of VSL.
The VSL Instrument is not VST only though - also standalone - so you can run it on a different computer - if you have one (I only use one!). With one computer one can just install and pray. But there is so many things running at the same time, and VSL need an HD by itself anyways (in times of S-ATA HDs have their own busses), so it might not be that bad.

just my thoughts


best

My problem is as follows: I have several machines loaded with giga. I don't only use VSL, I draw from a vast collection of libs that supply me with all the sounds that I need. i almost always need 3 machines loaded full to do my scoring. If I have to use another format, such as a stand alone VST or Kontakt, I pretty much have to give up an entire machine to do so. This means that instead of getting up to 8 banks of 16 sounds in giga all drawn from a very large collection of sounds, I'm stuck with a hand ful of sounds on VST or Knotakt and now VI.
It's not efficent for those of us that have invested a small fortune on Giga based libs, libs that I might add, have pretty much put and kept companies like VSL in the first place.
I'm not against progress, but I'm not going to shell out a ton of dough for another complete format just because VSL all of a sudden decides that they want to do their own format. If everyone does their own format, we are stuck with a bunch of non intregrating libs. This is the biggest problem I have with EWQLSO, besides the osund. Your stuck with NI if you start using it. You can't use it effectively along with giga unless you want to give up an entire machine. And I don't. It's not worth losing access to all the other great libs I have just to use EWQLSO. It's way too limiting. I own EWQLSO and I hardly ever use it because it's format is too limiting. I don't want to tie up an entire machine for it.

The other option you have is to break up your machines into various formats, which is just as impractical because I don't ever use the same setup for any two scores. I need the flexiblity to access my entire lib across as many machines as I like. It's a major pain in the ass to have to try and calulate if I can get away with X Y and Z libs in one machine while trying to juggle some other format in another.

For VI, my only solution would be to maybe use the VI on my seq machine, G5 and leave the Giga on all the PC's. But this won't work either because VSL decided to use VST. I can't use VST. It doesn't work with my set up, and I'm not about to go change my entire audio system just to use VI. And I can absolutely tell you that a hell of lot of other composers I know in LA use the pretty much the same set up I use. They are RTAS/TDM based hardware with either Logic or DP or Protools as the software.
And the idea of going with a wrapper is horrible. Those damn things hardly work have the time. It's just one more bastardized program to crash and lock everything up. I need more realibilty in my life, not more headaches.

Well, RTAS is not supported I guess - but AU (Logic and DP native) is, and standalone. What does not help you with TDM setup.

I do not really understand the thing with the Gigas - you mean that you do not run enough VIs or VSL libs on one computer / so to use it efficiently you would need to mix mix VI and Giga?
Well, perhaps we should wait for the real world performance, compatibility and how stable the thing is before we get to upset.

best

@steff3 said:

Well, RTAS is not supported I guess - but AU (Logic and DP native) is, and standalone. What does not help you with TDM setup.

I do not really understand the thing with the Gigas - you mean that you do not run enough VIs or VSL libs on one computer / so to use it efficiently you would need to mix mix VI and Giga?
Well, perhaps we should wait for the real world performance, compatibility and how stable the thing is before we get to upset.

best

Exactly. I've amassed a huge Giga lib in the last few yearrs through buying giga libs and by taking my older Roland, akai, and custom libs which I've amassed over twenty years and converting it to Giga via translator. I don't just use VSL for everything I do. It's a great lib, but it's not the end all of everything. As great as it is, it's still missing many articulations, even many basic ones - some of which I've requested in other posts, and many which I have to find and use from other libs such SI or even older libs to cover. And that's not to mention the thousands of instruments and sounds that VSL doesn't cover. Not even close. I mix several big libs just to attain the string sounds I need. The same holds true for brass and all the other groups. I am able to do this using giga. Once we start down the path of closed formats, it's going to cut off the abliity to access a broad range of instruments. No one company does everything, though I think a few of them would like to believe that all you need is them. Imagine the mess if every single company had it's own format? You'ed be stuck with hundreds of different formats to deal with.

The only other format I have currently is a few things by NI. If I had a ton of VST stuff, and didn't require the sounds that I do, it might not be as big of a deal. But you can't really run both Giga and another format on one machine at the same time, so these different formats are creating a world where you have to stick to one or the other.

So now, if I want access to the newer material, which I seriously doubt they will offer up in giga format as well, I will be forced to bring in yet another new format to go along with giga.

At the very least, I hope that VSL realizes that by forcing us out of the format that we've invested a fortune into, they should do their very best to try and make their new format as compatible as possible. In other words, they should offer it up in more than just VST and AU. RTAS should be offered as well.

As a person who has given a huge chunk of money to VSL and invested in their product from day 1, I have the right to speak up and say "Hey, this won't work well for me. This is going to screw up a lot of people who invested a fortune into the VSL who can't really just use VST and AU. Please, consider this and think about what it's going to do to your customer base"