@cm said:

we will keep up the *good habit* to ask you to register your VIENNA KEY number besides your products. this will give us and you the option to re-create licenses in case a dongle dies or get's lost.

this is a reply to myself because it seems this statement gets misinterpreted by a few users.

1) a key dies (no longer recognized for some reason, locked by a pending license, similar case)

 1a) the key is within the quarantee (depends on local regulation): we will replace the key + licenses (P&P might apply)

 1b) the key is out of quarantee: we will replace licenses (a small handling fee might apply)

2) a key is damaged (smashed, scorched): we will replace licenses (a small handling fee might apply)

for both cases we need of course to proof the issue, means the key has to be returned to us or a distributor. contact us before returning the key to someone if more than one vendor is involved (eg. steinberg, tascam, VSL, others)

3) the key is stolen: this should usually be covered by your insurance but in case you are not insured and can proof the issue (eg. reported to police) ask our sales department for a special offer. this will be handled individually case by case. if you notify us about the issue we can lock the license for further transfers, but we don't have access to the license as long as it is used *offline*. a handling fee might apply.

4) the key is lost or misplaced: with some contracts this might be covered by an insurance, but we cannot offer very much to you except confirming which licenses are on the key (if you have registered it), lock the licenses for further transfers and look if someone tried that already.

for the latter two cases we can re-create the licenses, but i didn't assume someone would expect to receive a replacement for free ...

christian

The license is the product.

The key holds the license.

If you loose the key you lost the product.

It's the same as if you have lost your car.

You won't get a new car from Ford, Merceds etc.

Maybe you get money from your assurance, if you have one.

We cannot control if you have sold or lost your key, therefor we cannot offer you  new products/licenses for free.

If we would do that, the amount of "lost" keys" would increase dramatically.

best

Herb

@charles_30783 said:

...buy a new key and then have my old registration transfered to it?

how should we access (transfer) the license if it sits somewhere in the world on a key attached to a computer without internet?

and: you have done everybody loosing a key not a big favour posting the 50% which have been a special offer to meet you halfway because your issue appeared credible and i think our sales department will not offer this again now.

christian

 Hi Christian, Herb,

You are absolutely right to defend your intellectual property however the "lost" dongle issue has been raised a number of times so is obviously an issue that preys on peoples minds. The most likely chance of a dongle going missing in pro circles is the visit to a large sound stage for an orchestral or other recording where the dongle is required for the session.

In a lot of these cases the rigging and striking of equipment is carried out by the studio - in the past I've had leads and bits and pieces go missing - almost certainly not through theft but just things being put in the wrong place.

Yes, for something worth such a lot (in my case probablly approaching 5 figures) the dongle should be kept somewhere close to hand (insert and twist!) but then again a large orchestral recording can be a pressured environment.

I'm not sure all insurance policies would give such a blanket requirement and if they did the resultant premium would be considerable and I doubt good value for money and in the case of loss rather than theft the insurance company would be a hard nut to crack.

I do think the Vienna Dongle is a little different from most music related dongles in that it can end up carrying an immense value of licenses.

I don't know the technical possibilities but I for one would be happy to accept a modification to my installation that required my computer "sniffing " at the VSL server once a month to revalidate the installed packages (as distinct from the dongle itself) if this meant  I did not worry about loosing the dongle. This or any other solution to protect our VSL investment would certainly be of interst to many.

Regards

Julian 

Hm then it looks like I better put inssurance  on it if I can when I get it and keep it somewhere I can find it ot someting because I'm really afraid something stupid might happen... 

@herb said:

The license is the product.

The key holds the license.

If you loose the key you lost the product.

It's the same as if you have lost your car.

You won't get a new car from Ford, Merceds etc.

Maybe you get money from your assurance, if you have one.

We cannot control if you have sold or lost your key, therefor we cannot offer you  new products/licenses for free.

If we would do that, the amount of "lost" keys" would increase dramatically.

best

Herb

Hello Herb,

well, I am glad you bring up that comparison yourself!

If it was really applicable to the full extend, then we could easily sell our

license - just as simple as I could sell my Mercedes [;)]

Btw, I still believe the restriction to prevent selling a license is invalid in Germany

anyway, in particular if a dongle is involved. Many companies, including Microsoft

and other biggies are trying to prevent resale of licenses, most of the time without

success.

Now I am afraid Volkswagen and Mercedes will introduce such restrictions too.

You wouldn't own the car anymore, just the license to use it! Permission to get it

fixed, if it breaks down, would be available for an extra fee, if desired.

Damn, that will push sales!

Sorry, really couldn't resist on this one...

The main problem however is, I do neither want to sell my Mercedes, nor my VSL

license. I would rather buy another license, like the SE Plus, but for some reason

you decided to continue to torture us by holding it back.You are so mean!

Give it to me baby!

Peter

@charles_30783 said:

Julian - Good idea regarding a computer tagging the VSL website once a month to revalidate the license. Perhaps the license can have a 30 day clock that needs to be "reset" by VSL. The VSL server could verify not only the product but the machine (s) used. There may be some issues when a computer is changed or upgraded, but I think this could be solved. ~Charles

Doesn't sound like a good idea to me... the last thing I want when I'm doing a studio session is to be reminded that VSL must "check my license" and, horror of horrors, have my software deactivated....

That said, having lots of valuable licenses in a little dongle can be a bit worrying when you move around. I occasionally do orchestra sessions in outside studios and take my laptop - lots of curious musicians hang around my rig during breaks and it wouldn't be too difficult to swipe the dongle. Oh well, I just have to unplug it each time and hang it round my neck on a strap. Problem is that this also means closing my software and reloading after the break.... aaargh!!!

So I guess insurance would be the way to go...  Does anyone know of a company that insures music gear and software in Italy? 

Regards,

Aidan 

on several occasions (like eg. a fair) it has become common practice to secure various parts from beeing *displaced*, even if they are of a dimension which would make us assume it would be impossible to displace them ...

ideas and suggestions to make a license expire regulary or beeing dependant on *touching a server* should be considered very carefully and in their whole depth of pros and cons - i think it is much more critical to have a license stored on the computer or bound to a harddisk/network interface/ect than to a dongle. de-authorizing a license from a computer or harddisk which has died can easily become a mess and reveals finally the same problem as not beeing able to access a license on a key which is *offline*

it sound to me a little bit like spirit of the age is tending to make everybody else responsible for taking care on things/gear/ect except oneselves ...

let me add a counterexample here: i have a really expensive backup software for which the serial number has been lost somewhen and obviously nobody ever registered it at the vendor's website. not only that now i'm not able to upgrade it aslo i would need to purchase a new full version and i will never be able to transfer the license to another server - i would be really happy to have the license on a dongle to simply attach it to another machine ...

christian

If the dongle breaks or dies it's no problem to replace the dongle and all licenses.

The dongle has to be registered and the dongle has to be sent to our distributors (or to Vienna).

Than we can look at the dongle number and check the licenses holding on that key in a Syncrosoft database interface.

And than you will get a new dongle with new licenses from Vienna.

best

Herb

.. as this post already explains ... in 1a) 1b) and 2)

christian

edit: and you can request a demo mode license to get up and running again with almost no delay ...

@Another User said:

let me add a counterexample here: i have a really expensive backup software for which the serial number has been lost somewhen and obviously nobody ever registered it at the vendor's website.

 The analogy with a car is not, I think, a perfect one. If, for example, you lose the key to your "Mercedes" (or any other car) you can get another without paying for a new car. You can insure your car against loss or theft, but the price of the key is, most likely, less than the deductible.

The basic problem with using this analogy is that automobile manufacturers do not confront the same problems as software manufacturers. There are, so far as I know, no ubiquitously available, inexpensive, automobile duplicating machines that would allow you to make perfectly functional copies of your Mercedes  (and thus get two or ten for the price of one + the cost of the "duplicator" and materials) while software can be copied in just such fashion from hard drive to hard drive. Hence the need for copy protection.

However the problem of lost or stolen Vienna keys may need to be thought through more comprehensively so that, if possible, some kind of technical solution might be offered.  (What if, for example, the first time a key was inserted into a computer, it required a visit to the Syncorosoft site for an authorization check - - so that keys reported lost or stolen could then be automatically deauthorized.) In the meantime, buy insurance. 

the analogy with a car is far away from beeing perfect but to spin your objection further: since copying of software happens at almost no costs consequently the first specimen of a software should be paid and all following ones almost free (because only copies) .... obviously also not applying.

additionally the situation is different because we don't talk about software but copyrighted content - you can get a replacement for your ViennaInstruments or ViennaEnsemble software whenever you like.

as posted earlier: any alternate method like *touching a server* or actually *touching when inserted into a new computer* needs extensive considerations of pros and cons.

many music computers (if not most) are not connected to the internet, thats why i find the offline license download so useful.

the only occasion such a method could even work is when a license is beeing transferred or added, in case the dongle is kept offline you never have a chance to check.

christian