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  • Entering the VSL Universe - Which portal should I use?

    R
    R

    Hey folks,

    I have a budget of about $2,500, and I am about to set myself up with a starter pack of VSL instruments to significantly upgrade my ability to do orchestral arrangements / orchestrations primarily for film work and also to create musical theater tracks. I work in Logic and have over a decade experience producing jazz, pop, musical theater, singer / songwriter and other genres. But I do not have a ton of experience working with symphonic orchestral libraries like VSL. I should mention that I have used MIR Pro (24) for a previous project, a jazz big band arrangement, using mostly non-VSL instruments. But MIR worked great, and I loved the way it basically created my mix for me in 3D.

    With that in mind, I'm considering purchasing the following, and I would love for someone to audit my thinking here. If this seems like a good way to go for (essentially) a first time VSL user, great. But if I should be considering other options I'd love to hear that as well. (My reasoning is included after each purchase):

    Synchron Duality Strings (Regular) $595 - I love string arrangements, and these duality instruments seem like game changers.

    Synchron Prime $595 - This seems like a nice intro to the full VSL orchestral universe, and the flow view will probably smooth out my initial learning curve. It's also less of an investment than something like Special Editions or the Big Bang Orchestra (which looks AWESOME).

    MIR Pro 3D $795 - This is a hefty cost upfront, but seems like it might be worth just making it part of my initial entry into the VSL workflow. That way if I add instruments later on they'll all just slot into the MIR environment, which I will already be familiar with.

    MIR Room Pack $215-$315 - Sort of need one of these too since MIR relies on them. Makes the upfront cost a bit hefty, and I wonder whether this is the best use of my upfront investment. But having worked with MIR, I at least know that I'm already a fan.

    The above would get me to about $2,250, so I'd have a little headroom left to play with. This is my most likely path forward unless I receive input to the contrary.

    But I could also see doing something like Big Band Orchestra, plus MIR, and calling it a day. I'm concerned the BBO, while it will definitely make amazing sounds, will not have the versatility of the more specific libraries like duality strings, and the various packages in Prime. Is this correct? Then there's Studio Cube, which seems like a really great deal, but I would be concerned that I would miss the lushness of the sounds in the duality or other Synchron libraries. Also, I'm not clear on whether flow view is available in any libraries other than Prime, and duality strings. I've got the Duality strings essentials trial, and I find the flow view great to work with as a newbie.

    As you can probably tell, I'm a bit overwhelmed by the options and I would love to make my first step into the VSL ecosystem a positive one. My budget could potentially be stretched up to $3K. Any recommendations on how to proceed would be much appreciated.

    Thank you! This seems like a really great forum with incredibly insightful discussions. I look forward to your responses.
  • DaddyOD
    DaddyOD

    Welcome, rwholloway. Media composing is not my thing, so others can best advise you.

    One thing I can say is that we have been told Flow View might be rolled out gradually to other libraries, but no time frame has been given.

    Synchron - Woods, Brass, Perc I, Str Pro, Elite Str, Duality Str & Sordino, Prime Studio - Woods, Perc, Solo Str, Ch Str, Orch Str, App Str, Harps, Choir Studio Dim - Brass, Strings VE Pro, MIR Pro 3D, Vienna Suite Pro Cubase 14, Studio One 6, Dorico 5
  • mducharmeM
    mducharmeM
    last edited
    last edited

    MIR 3D Pro comes with one roompack included (of your choice) so you don't have to spend extra unless you want to get an extra roompack.

    Keep in mind that with Synchron Prime and Duality Strings and things like BBO, there is little point to MIR as those libraries already have ambience. Where MIR comes in is when you want to add sounds from VSL's studio series, or dry sounds from other vendors, and make them sound as though they were sampled on the Synchron Stage. With the VSL libraries you said you are looking at buying (Prime, Duality and BBO), MIR will not come into play at all as those were already recorded on Synchron Stage so you don't have to simulate Synchron.

    I certainly prefer the Synchron Series to the Studio Series. I usually only buy the Studio Series to get a few articulations that the Synchron Series has not recorded.
  • D
    D
    @rwholloway said:

    Hey folks,


    I have a budget of about $2,500, and I am about to set myself up with a starter pack of VSL instruments to significantly upgrade my ability to do orchestral arrangements / orchestrations primarily for film work and also to create musical theater tracks. I work in Logic and have over a decade experience producing jazz, pop, musical theater, singer / songwriter and other genres. But I do not have a ton of experience working with symphonic orchestral libraries like VSL. I should mention that I have used MIR Pro (24) for a previous project, a jazz big band arrangement, using mostly non-VSL instruments. But MIR worked great, and I loved the way it basically created my mix for me in 3D.


    With that in mind, I'm considering purchasing the following, and I would love for someone to audit my thinking here. If this seems like a good way to go for (essentially) a first time VSL user, great. But if I should be considering other options I'd love to hear that as well. (My reasoning is included after each purchase):


    Synchron Duality Strings (Regular) $595 - I love string arrangements, and these duality instruments seem like game changers.


    Synchron Prime $595 - This seems like a nice intro to the full VSL orchestral universe, and the flow view will probably smooth out my initial learning curve. It's also less of an investment than something like Special Editions or the Big Bang Orchestra (which looks AWESOME).


    MIR Pro 3D $795 - This is a hefty cost upfront, but seems like it might be worth just making it part of my initial entry into the VSL workflow. That way if I add instruments later on they'll all just slot into the MIR environment, which I will already be familiar with.


    MIR Room Pack $215-$315 - Sort of need one of these too since MIR relies on them. Makes the upfront cost a bit hefty, and I wonder whether this is the best use of my upfront investment. But having worked with MIR, I at least know that I'm already a fan.


    The above would get me to about $2,250, so I'd have a little headroom left to play with. This is my most likely path forward unless I receive input to the contrary.


    But I could also see doing something like Big Band Orchestra, plus MIR, and calling it a day. I'm concerned the BBO, while it will definitely make amazing sounds, will not have the versatility of the more specific libraries like duality strings, and the various packages in Prime. Is this correct? Then there's Studio Cube, which seems like a really great deal, but I would be concerned that I would miss the lushness of the sounds in the duality or other Synchron libraries. Also, I'm not clear on whether flow view is available in any libraries other than Prime, and duality strings. I've got the Duality strings essentials trial, and I find the flow view great to work with as a newbie.


    As you can probably tell, I'm a bit overwhelmed by the options and I would love to make my first step into the VSL ecosystem a positive one. My budget could potentially be stretched up to $3K. Any recommendations on how to proceed would be much appreciated.


    Thank you! This seems like a really great forum with incredibly insightful discussions. I look forward to your responses.

    I would recommend this:

    - Big Bang Orchestra € 1,890
    - Synchron Prime Edition € 595
    - Duality Strings Essentials € 199 (only if you can stretch your budget a bit)

    Why do you want MIR Pro 3D? Do you have a lot of dry orchestral libraries? Synchron libraries are not designed to work with MIR.
  • P
    P

    Concurring with the above, if you already have MIR 24, I'd tap the brakes there until it becomes clearly necessary, and moves to the Synchron universe contraindicate an emphasis on MIR -- as amazing as MIR is.

    Some auxiliary points:

    1. The learning curve. You rightfully mention this in the original post. Synchron Prime will give you time to absorb how this all works.
    2. Upgrades and discounts. My VSL library is large, and it was built on upgrades and discounts. This company has been generous with its incentives -- if not downright shrewd in coaxing users to add to their orchestras. This can be considered another reason to buy just Prime and give yourself a a season or two to compose while premium offers follow.
    3. A word of caution on Synchron: it does place you into a specific venue -- one which is not akin to a musical theater pit orchestra. Strictly speaking, you can bring up the close mics and place the sound in a different venue with MIR or other reverbs, but it's not really what Synchron is designed to do (or what you're paying for).
    4. Philosophically, ask yourself this difficult question: what emphasis do I place on the creation of final MIDI tracks that sound as authentic as possible with samples? The more detailed the library, the more the options. The more the options, the deeper the rabbit hole. Do you really need three versions of a sampled release times four versions of an attack, times several microphones times the simultaneous recording of a note in a large hall and a small hall times an exponential number of articulations (Duality Strings)? And if you need it, do you really need it now?
    5. Perhaps this or that other company's libraries sound great. But I doubt they will offer you the enfolding of an entire approach that interrelates, grows and flourishes as the world VSL has created. Other companies have products, but VSL has a universe.

    I salute your intelligent questions and methodical query. May you have wisdom when you make your choices. I know it's hard to be restrained when money is available and so many glorious sounds are offered to you.

  • I
    I

    I suggest you to get some time and add things one by one , you dont have to spend it all together and than find out you need some more right way. each month you get great prices for different libraries. (for eg, synchron duality full library was half price on december ). now its piano libraries and so on each month. plus you take some time to see how things match togather, for example, duality dont fit together with mir pro . it may help you out to fit dry studio sounds on to the same ambience with duality strings, but cant use mir pro on duality. duality strings or strings pro ? they totally different from one another , still they have the same sound room ambience . i am on the same spot you are , just spending slowly and checking things out. i got synchron duality strings full, synchron woodwinds full, synchron brass full, fazioli f308 full and i am loaded up with vouchers 3+1 offer and waiting for percussion offer . so you can save some more and have things the way you want more by taking some time.

    but , if you know what you doing and you all ready know vsl very well, ignore every one and make you wish come true 😊👌
  • Beat KaufmannB
    Beat KaufmannB

    Hello rwholloway
    Here are my 2 cents on your entry.

    The Prime Edition is a good thing because it actually offers everything you need. Either way, it's a good library to learn how to use VSL samples efficiently.

    Presumably because strings sit at the front of the orchestra and are therefore easier to hear, the Prime edition soon lacks a few articulations that you would also like to have. In this respect, the Duality Strings library is also a very sensible purchase.

    I would start with just these two libraries and you will soon realize which instruments you want more details from. These could well be further percussion instruments or the expansion of the brass instruments. Perhaps a piano, a solo violin, a choir, an organ... the last instruments listed are not available in the prime edition.

    What you can certainly do without at the beginning is MIR, because all the SYNCHRON libraries are all very natural and recorded 1:1 in the SYNCHRON stage. With the different microphones of the instruments, you can either create any (natural) room depth yourself, or simply use the presets that VSL has prepared for them to start with. The best way to start is to select Classical for all instruments and your Orchestra-Mix will work. If you already have other “dry” libraries, MIR can of course help you to place these instruments on the SYNCHRON stage as well. --------------------------

    20 years ago, I started using the first VSL libraries to try to get as close as possible to real originals (real recordings). It wasn't that easy, because nobody could tell you how to achieve this with samples (which were still dry at the time).
    Today there are all kinds of tutorials and help available.
    If you like: Here is a video that roughly shows all the steps of music production with VSL-samples. At the center of the video are the Duality strings, which you will probably want to buy...



    -------------------------

    The video contains a lot of content. You will probably have to pause it from time to time to take in everything you can read.

    Have fun starting this great and fascinating task!
    Beat

    - Tips & Tricks while using Samples of VSL.. see at: https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/ - Tutorial "Mixing an Orchestra": https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/mixing-an-orchestra/