main + close mike simulation - does this work ?

[HorNet505]

hey all

I wan't to check if this setup works, since I got no live experience in recording.

I like to use the multiple rooms feature of MirPro3D to create a close miking simulation. The result should give me more mixing options like in real life.

Now I use the Synchron Stage in my template and I use the main miking for the main mix, of course.

I copied the instrument setting and moved it to the second room.

I used a cardoid mic, and moved it from the default conductors position to the instrument and placed it above.

Voila. I now have two channels in Cubase to mix them.

I want to know from you guys if I miss something here or if this makes sense. I would continue to create a whole bunch of close miking across the whole orchestral setup

[HorNet505]

no one ?

[Dietz]

Why don't you just use the unprocessed input signal instead? It seems as you're overcomplicating things to some extent, close-miking something that has been close-miked already in Real Life. 😊

Do you have an example that already sounds good to you to illustrate the effect you want to achieve?

[HorNet505]

well in my mind the close mics do also pick up some room reflection, no?
But yes, you probably are right about the dry signal. As for now I just use a second MIR plugin and place the "close" instrument close to the decca tree.

I also use the ORIGINAL sound as another path.
I hear some nice reverb on the CLOSE mike that gives me a kind of "real sound" in the room, which the DRY and ORIGINAL sound does lack.

[HorNet505]

so all in all everything looks a bit messy if not filtered in view:

[Dietz]

@HorNet505 said:
As for now I just use a second MIR plugin and place the "close" instrument close to the decca tree.

That's an quite unusual approach that has little in common with the more typical quest for "realism", but if you want to employ it I strongly suggest to use the direct signal only from one Icon (most likely the closer one). Chances are that you would not only run into phasing issues as soon as you use any kind of EQs or filters, but you would make the perceived positioning of the instrument even more fuzzy (and complicated 😉 ....).

Kind regards,

[ilirjan]

@HorNet505 synchron stage is very similar to normal opera house or concert stages . the only thing that is missing out there is the hall , where the audience stay . as far as i understand , mir pro helps rich that dimension to. dont mess with orchestral basic dynamics and positions , its a long process of centuries of development . all synchron stage or mir pro 3D concept is to stay faith full to that concept . use them in the wrong way and you going to mess up all your sound. I useed to record opera or symphonic orchestra a lot, the moment someone try to experiment with positions ( happens with experimental operas or contemporary music) than pandora box is open 😃

[HorNet505]

@ilirjan I think you misunderstand my current approach - I use a classical seating as you can see in the pic. The dense front positions are my addittional CLOSE MIC simulations which, right now, would have a wrong reflection from the hall. This is why I wanted to copy the players position on the same spot in another MIR instance and move the microphone from the conductor position to the players position, just like in a real scoring session, and thus simulate a close mic. In my mind, the reflection of the room then would be correct.

f.e. the pic shows my current use of the left percussion section with my CLOSE simulation as I use it now.
My dry VST instrument runs directly to the decca tree and a SEND runs to the close mic. If I need a more direct sound I could now dial in the CLOSE mics.

[Dietz]

@HorNet505 said:
The close positions are my addittional CLOSE MIC simulations which, right now, would have a wrong reflection from the hall.

I don't really see why this should be the case. They will have most likely the ERs from the actual recording burnt-in (unless they are derived physical modelling or the like). Of course the close mic would pick up the ERs from the position of the instrument on the stage, but usually this is perceived as a potential issue rather than as a feature.

But in any case: Moving the Main Microphone will NOT trigger other impulse responses, it just changes the Ambisonics-decoder's internal geometry. The feature is meant to adjust the typical little imbalances of real rooms.

-> https://www.vsl.co.at/manuals/mir-pro-3d/starting#output-format-selection

Using the mouse, the Microphone icon can be dragged to different positions on the stage.

• Important

• These changes affect only the dry signal components, not the decoding of impulse responses! The feature is mostly used for centering and/or widening the acoustic imaging of an orchestra on the stage. The sonic result achieved also depends on the setting for “Consider Mic Offset” in each Icon’s Dry Signal Handling panel, which should be switched “On” under normal circumstances.

[HorNet505]

sorry - wrong pic - I could not edit the post 😕

[Dietz]

@HorNet505 said:

sorry - wrong pic - I could not edit the post 😕

Looks like an interesting setup, but I strongly doubt that it will give you more "realistic" options, especially as long as you mix the direct signals, too.