Elegy for my Symphonic Cube

[Holgmeister]

The hit was expected, but when it happened, it still hurts. VI is discontinued and the end of the road is visible.

I was user from day one, migrated from my Horizon products and moved over the years from Special Edition to the Symphonic Cube.

As a hobbyist, it took me long nights (and even more spare money) to find a workflow and I am still a big fan and enthusiast of the power, that lies in these decade old samples and their vast array of articulation. The magic was always to wake them up from dry to whatever you want to make it sound.

With the rise of MIR Pro 3D, I discovered again the incredible value of dry samples and the clear and pristine mixes you can reach with them in 3D, Surround and Binaural mixes. This hurts the most: The newly discovered three dimensional space made the dry samples shine even more and also the other way around, the way the spaces are interacting with the "SIlent Stage" samples is incredible.

Just this week I took an old mix of an eerie high-pitched VSL violin solo, remixed it into 3D Surround with my own array of effects to make it soar. It is one of moments where you as a hobbyist think: "Yes, that's it".

On a personal side, I never could make sense out of Synchron Stuff and to my ears, they don't trigger anything that would make me buy or use them. They just don't fit the way I am working and thinking in my audio world and in my studio workflow. Therefore, I will fail as a candidate for up- cross- or sidegrade to Synchron.

The "Big Bang" Stuff ist even less my thing, I never wanted to be the next "Instant HZ" and the prefabricated patterns feels a little bit like "painting by numbers". (Again, sorry for beeing opinionated)

I know I am "an old guy from the past" and time, business and contemporary music is moving on and everybody offers the newest shiny cinematic libraries with even more tutti than the world ever need.

I hope, at the very end, that I can freeze my current Windows-PC as long as Microsoft and ILok permitted and keep working with my setup in my new 3D World in my attic studio and produce masterpieces that probably will never see the light of the world.

At least I should not worry about Double Bass samples: These I can play myself now in 192K and unmatched expressions (you bet)

For the end, let's speak with a famous movie and quote the replicant Roy Batty from Blade Runner:

"All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain"

[Mary]

@Holgmeister said:

The hit was expected, but when it happened, it still hurts. VI is discontinued and the end of the road is visible.

I was user from day one, migrated from my Horizon products and moved over the years from Special Edition to the Symphonic Cube.

As a hobbyist, it took me long nights (and even more spare money) to find a workflow and I am still a big fan and enthusiast of the power, that lies in these decade old samples and their vast array of articulation. The magic was always to wake them up from dry to whatever you want to make it sound.

With the rise of MIR Pro 3D, I discovered again the incredible value of dry samples and the clear and pristine mixes you can reach with them in 3D, Surround and Binaural mixes. This hurts the most: The newly discovered three dimensional space made the dry samples shine even more and also the other way around, the way the spaces are interacting with the "SIlent Stage" samples is incredible.

Just this week I took an old mix of an eerie high-pitched VSL violin solo, remixed it into 3D Surround with my own array of effects to make it soar. It is one of moments where you as a hobbyist think: "Yes, that's it".

On a personal side, I never could make sense out of Synchron Stuff and to my ears, they don't trigger anything that would make me buy or use them. They just don't fit the way I am working and thinking in my audio world and in my studio workflow. Therefore, I will fail as a candidate for up- cross- or sidegrade to Synchron.

The "Big Bang" Stuff ist even less my thing, I never wanted to be the next "Instant HZ" and the prefabricated patterns feels a little bit like "painting by numbers". (Again, sorry for beeing opinionated)

I know I am "an old guy from the past" and time, business and contemporary music is moving on and everybody offers the newest shiny cinematic libraries with even more tutti than the world ever need.

I hope, at the very end, that I can freeze my current Windows-PC as long as Microsoft and ILok permitted and keep working with my setup in my new 3D World in my attic studio and produce masterpieces that probably will never see the light of the world.

At least I should not worry about Double Bass samples: These I can play myself now in 192K and unmatched expressions (you bet)

For the end, let's speak with a famous movie and quote the replicant Roy Batty from Blade Runner:

"All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain"

Dear Holgmeister,

I'm sorry to hear your sadness. But please don't be too sad. Have you tried the Synchron-ized versions of the VI libraries? They're really good and very convenient. I admit, less articulations but overall improved samples and even quite some "new" samples. VSL has real impressive update offers at the moment. Up to 50% reduction on VI libraries. Try it out cause this Synchron Player is sooo good!

Regards,

Willem

[Cyril Blanc]

This post is deleted!

[Cyril Blanc]

This post is deleted!

[Holgmeister]

@Mary said:
Have you tried the Synchron-ized versions of the VI libraries?

Have you really read my post? Your marketing chatbot post does not make the impression you really read my thoughts.

@Mary said:
VSL has real impressive update offers at the moment

But if I take your post serious, there is not much "impressive" in it:

I need to pay 1.5 times the amount I paid for the VSL VI Symphonic Cube to get Synchron siedegrades and still have much less than I have today. Not a good deal.

If I take the Upgrade to the VI Super Package, again, it cost me the same as I paid for the VI Cube and I can use it formally only for the next year. (Even if - technically - it will work, but without any official support until VSL pulls the plug on iLok.)

Just to make another example:

If I take on the offer from one large competitor and make an All-In-Subscription, I can run for the price of the up-cross-or -sidegrades the subscription for TEN YEARS and always have the latest and greatest for the price of the crippled Synchron Libraries.

[Holgmeister]

This post is deleted!

[Holgmeister]

One last remark :

When I started to learn Double Bass (Upright Bass), I purchased the completly run-down doublebass from my teacher, a Master Class student.

The Double Bass is about 100 years old, probably made in Eastern Germany or Eastern Europe and you can tell the fate of countless players, dragging it into Concerts and Jazz clubs by small cars, train or public transportation by the damage, the scars and the patina of this old instrument.

I paid 2.000 EUR and spent another 1.000 EUR on a complete restauration, plus a good German bow. Less the price I invested in VSL.

There will be no company claiming "End of Lifecycle", or "Wrong usage of our license terms" and the only foreseeable problems can be fixed by the luthier of my trust.

It sounds beautiful (which a lot of more knowledgeable bass players told me) and playing with a real bow on real strings made any library pale.

So, VSL will go ahead, do their thing on SYNCRON and BBO. Companys have commercial interests and that is driving their business decisions.

Fine for me, not my style.

[Mary]

@Holgmeister said:

@Mary said:
Have you tried the Synchron-ized versions of the VI libraries?

Have you really read my post? Your marketing chatbot post does not make the impression you really read my thoughts.

@Mary said:
VSL has real impressive update offers at the moment

But if I take your post serious, there is not much "impressive" in it:

I need to pay 1.5 times the amount I paid for the VSL VI Symphonic Cube to get Synchron siedegrades and still have much less than I have today. Not a good deal.

If I take the Upgrade to the VI Super Package, again, it cost me the same as I paid for the VI Cube and I can use it formally only for the next year. (Even if - technically - it will work, but without any official support until VSL pulls the plug on iLok.)

Just to make another example:

If I take on the offer from one large competitor and make an All-In-Subscription, I can run for the price of the up-cross-or -sidegrades the subscription for TEN YEARS and always have the latest and greatest for the price of the crippled Synchron Libraries.

Easy easy trooper, No need to become nasty I only tried to lift you up a bit since you sounded kinda down. Well that obviously didn't worked. Have a nice day.

Best,

Willem

[JShaw]

I must admit, this is terrible news. A step backwards in the world of VSTs.

The Synchron Player just does not have the breadth of utility currently offered by the VI Player and the matrix system. I have experimented with the Synchron-ized version and just could not achieve the same / similar sound I was previously getting with the VI Pro Player. The VI Pro Player is completely unmatched by other VST competitors in the amount of customisation it offers.

I am particularly concerned that, with the VI Pro Player no longer being supported post-2025, within a few years the VI Pro Player will no longer be compatible with modern OS resulting in ~£5,000 worth of VSTs going down the drain. This would be catastrophic to many users.

While I do recognize there are Synchron-ized versions of these samples available, it costs over ~£1,400 to "upgrade" simply for the luxury of being able to continue using the same samples in another player (and with less utility). Further, the VI Super Package is currently ~£2,800, so the crossgrade price is asking for a further 50% purely for re-mapped samples in a different player (which is very steep).

For comparison: Orchestral Tools switched from using the Kontakt player to their own Sine player. They offered users a free update to the Sine version if the library was purchased a few years prior. Otherwise, the crossgrade price was a mere 10% of the library cost (not 50%).

Once support for the VI Pro Player is ceased in 2025, the Synchron-ized cross-grade should ideally become a free update for existing owners of the respective VI Series, as users will eventually have no choice but to switch in order to continue using the samples (although I am really hoping that support for the Player is continued beyond 2025).

[Holgmeister]

@Mary said:
No need to become nasty I only tried to lift you up a bit

Hi William,

did no recognize your new identity, sorry for that - thanks for lifting me up. Your post was indeed too well disguised in marketing arguments.

Thanks for being such a friend and long-time companion on the VSL road.

Cheers

H.

[Holgmeister]

Hi JShaw ,

you summarized the concerns very well.

I can second your suggestion:

@JShaw said:
Once support for the VI Pro Player is ceased in 2025, the Synchron-ized cross-grade should ideally become a free update for existing owners of the respective VI Series,

But to the defence of VSL, this probably will never happen. I can understand, that a stable library, where professionals are very contend to work with and see no reason to buy new stuff are not really a sales hit and liable future income for any company.

Everything "SYNCHRON" is probably the growth path for VSL and from a commercial perspective, I can share that idea.

Good marketing catches needs to have a unique selling point, but "SYNCHRON-ized" does not catch up with me.

And with MIR PRO 3D, which has become my new "obsession" with all these Ambisonic possibilities, it makes even less sense.

[Andreas8420]

@Holgmeister said:
And with MIR PRO 3D, which has become my new "obsession" with all these Ambisonic possibilities, it makes even less sense.

Hi! Thank you for sharing your thoughts. While there is (understandably) a bit of misconception flying around with all these discussions, I'd like to address this statement, as MIR seems to have a special place in your workflow.

All SYNCHRON-ized libraries come with specific presets that give you the unprocessed, dry signal from the VI series, making them perfectly compatible with the MIR mixing approach you know and love from the VI Series.

[Holgmeister]

Hi Andreas,

thanks for sharing this. I know this perfectly well. My point is: It is working even better in the VIPro Environment without any SY-zed loops.

Why shoud I upgrade by paying the same amount again as I had for my "old" products so far, to get a sample with an upsampled artifical reverb that I turn off to use?

This is "fine" and "great sale" only for VSL, not for us outlived VI users with strong ties to our current workflow and MIR PRO.