MIR Pro 3d roles lost randomly in active venue preset

[bcslaam]

I do save the custom roles and venue preset on both sides after correcting it, but it makes no difference to this issue.

Randomly some of the roles (5-15 of them) are lost in the active venue (right) side and I have to drag them back over from the saved preset (left) side. I always make sure the roles are saved on the active preset on the right and I frequently save that back to the custom preset on the left (including overwriting all roles) after correcting the data loss. Note the order on the channel list main venue page (hence the active preset side as well) is never loaded the same way twice and thus never matches the saved custom preset role order on left of preset page.

I have also tried dragging the whole venue preset including roles from the left to the right. Which incidentally, if I clear the right side, never brings over my custom roles. It looks like they are all coming over but when I drop them, none are transferred. And I have to drag them one by one because the order doesnt match.

This happens about one in every 3 days or so, or sometimes consecutive days. The particular roles lost do change, but there are some that seem to be consistently lost, when it happens that is. If I save my project in nuendo as a template and use that template in a new song, most of the roles in the active side are lost due to the order mismatch.

Weirdly I notice as Nuendo loads the project, most times (but not always), it will first bring up all the roles correctly during the project load, but then towards the end of the loading process I watch the venue get reset and rebuilt/repopulated, and that's when the roles are lost. So, somewhere in Nuendo it remembers the icon positions, but it borks and reloads incorrectly.

Also, Nuendo never loads the tracks, that have MIR loaded as the VST panner, in the same order. So each time the project loads the active preset (right side) and main venue page list order is different to the order of the saved preset (left side).

So if MIR is relying on matching the roles via the order of the list, its a flawed approach. Surely it must be using the name of the role. For me this always equals the name of the Nuendo track, no matter how much I have tried to name it differently in MIR, it reverts to the name of the Nuendo track, which I make sure is a unique name.

I'm using Nuendo 13.0.41 on Windows 11 latest and MIR latest. MIR instantiated as a VST panner on a large disabled 3300 track midi only template with remote VEPro servers. The very first channel in nuendo, up the top of the split channel view, is my "master" MIR channel (as has been suggested by VSL) as an insert with the master bus width (7.1). I earlier had this master channel as a VST panner but the issue was happening then as well. Changing it to an insert seemed to improve the issue but not solve it.

[Dietz]

I've seen this posting in Steinberg's Nuendo-forum first and already replied to it there. I suggest that we focus on VSL's own forum for further discussion ... ?

Kind regards,

[bcslaam]

@Dietz said:

I've seen this posting in Steinberg's Nuendo-forum first and already replied to it there. I suggest that we focus on VSL's own forum for further discussion ... ?

Kind regards,

Thanks Dietz, yes lets keep it here now. I thought it might need cooperating between VSL and Steinberg with hope that other users were experiencing it and I wasnt going crazy. Its good to know I'm not alone with the issue and what better person than you to be experiencing it, however unfortunate that may be.

It's apparent to me it has something to do with the order that tracks are loaded in nuendo.

• Are you noticing that nuendo never loads them into MIR the same order twice?
• A randomly different arbitrary order of the MIR channel list in the main page (which is also reflected in the active preset list of roles) could be causing this. Are you seeing the order change?
• Are you able to drag n drop the saved preset across to the right and auto activate all roles despite they are in a different order? Or like me, do you have to manually drag the roles across to the ones that the order doesnt match?

[Dietz]

Hi Ben,

I already talked to Konrad Glas yesterday, who is one of the driving forces behind MIR 3D's code these days. He's fully aware of the issue now.

The main problem is in fact that what we see as an unified ensemble of "MIR Icons" on a Venue's stage are actually individual, unconnected plug-ins from the host's POV. Just by themselves they know nothing about each other. Consequently, it might happen that there is a request for another Output Format coming in under certain circumstances that triggers a new output setup. MIR has no way to know about this ATM, as there is no option in the VST3 specs that handles this scenario with some kind of "Loading finished!" info or the like.

However, Konrad already ponders over a few ideas that might at least give us a tool to fix the issue by means of additional user interaction. Not the most elegant solution, but still better than watching MIR 3D emptying an already loaded setup from an existing project ... 8-/

I'll keep you posted!

I will answer your other questions in a separate posting later today.

Thanks for your patience,

[Dietz]

@bcslaam said:
Are you noticing that nuendo never loads them into MIR the same order twice?

MIR has no control of the sequence the host starts the individual instances in.

@bcslaam said:
A randomly different arbitrary order of the MIR channel list in the main page (which is also reflected in the active preset list of roles) could be causing this. Are you seeing the order change?

The listings in the preset browser should stay as they are. However, the list of active Roles might look different from case to case due to the reason mentioned above.

@bcslaam said:
Are you able to drag n drop the saved preset across to the right and auto activate all roles despite they are in a different order? Or like me, do you have to manually drag the roles across to the ones that the order doesnt match?

Yes, this should work without any problems. The visual order of the Roles has no influence on this. As long as the existing Role(s) have the identical name(s), the parameters selected via the "Features" check-boxes in the area below the active preset window should either be applied automatically, or manually as soon as you click on the "Apply" button. You should also make sure that there are no duplicate roles.

HTH!

[bcslaam]

The loss of roles is happening 90% of the time when loading. To be more precise it is just losing the assignment of the role on the right side of the active venue preset, but the data in each role is not lost, it is still in the drop down list.

So, if I hit the drop down button on the very right side, to show the list of available roles I can then search and select it from that list and the role is properly recalled.

This further supports the theory that: the order of tracks parsed from Nuendo through to MIR, each time it loads a project, is never the same and cant be relied upon when matching the stored roles of a venue preset. Regardless of if they are stored within a venue preset, they're not assigned correctly.

Dietz to answer the final point of your reply above. It definitely doesn't do it for me. I drag the whole stored preset over and drop it on the active preset and nothing changes, some of the roles on the right remain unassigned but are available in the drop down list. I have triple checked for name duplication and all the options you show are checked the same.

To do this for me with 6 - 20 instruments each time I load a nuendo project is laborious. Hoping for a solution soon.

[Dietz]

@bcslaam said:

The loss of roles is happening 90% of the time when loading. To be more precise it is just losing the assignment of the role on the right side of the active venue preset, but the data in each role is not lost, it is still in the drop down list.

So, if I hit the drop down button on the very right side, to show the list of available roles I can then search and select it from that list and the role is properly recalled.

This further supports the theory that: the order of tracks parsed from Nuendo through to MIR, each time it loads a project, is never the same and cant be relied upon when matching the stored roles of a venue preset. Regardless of if they are stored within a venue preset, they're not assigned correctly.

Dietz to answer the final point of your reply above. It definitely doesn't do it for me. I drag the whole stored preset over and drop it on the active preset and nothing changes, some of the roles on the right remain unassigned but are available in the drop down list. I have triple checked for name duplication and all the options you show are checked the same.

To do this for me with 6 - 20 instruments each time I load a nuendo project is laborious. Hoping for a solution soon.

Hi Ben,

In case you didn't do so already: Could you please record a short screencast showing the issue, and send this and the respective Nuendo project to VSL's support? Just the *.npr, no audio files. It might also help if you include the Venue Presets in question (... you can drag them over from MIR's Preset Manager to your Desktop).

Ideally you will include the Support File created by Vienna Assistant, too (... accessible from the Main Menu in the top left corner).

We will look into it ASAP.

Kind regards,