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Thanks Dietz, Paul can probably also answer these questions as he presented the SY Player Atmos video made with Bernd’s input but I would be very happy with some input.
I think it all goes back to the question if you in Dolby Atmos you have to closely simulate the real venue where the samples were recorded or you just use approximate positions in a more or less standardized (L/H/W) listening environment represented by the room graph with the object positions in the DAW or Dolby panner
@Dietz said:
@Mavros said:
Firstly, am I correct that the SY decca tree and surround mics were at about 3 m above the stage and secondly do you have info on how high the "High" and High Sur" mics were mounted during the recording?
This is a question for @air Bernd Mazagg of Vienna Synchron Stage. 😊
Hi Dietz, Unfortunately this thread did not lead to any answers. I wrote to Bernd with a direct message but no answer. In the mean time I have progressed a lot with the setup and have an 18 instrument template in Cubase using Fiedler Dolby Atmos Composer and SpaceLab instead of the build in renderer. The result is good but in no way resembles the still rare original or up-mixed Dolby Atmos classical works you find on e.g. Apple Music. Somehow the orchestra seems much more distant using the VSL surround presets.
I would still be very interested in some VSL recommendation to translate in particular decca tree samples to Atmos speaker location. Maybe I missed it but despite the promise in the first Youtube video showing the VSL SY marimba in Dolby Atmos there does not seem a second VSL video in the topi yet.
Thanks Dietz, I found an older thread where the microphones used for all positions for the String libraries. The exact directional positioning of the high and surround mikes (towards the sound source or away from the source) is not given however. I might be wrong but baed on what I am hearing for each individual source and also the way the ambient mix presets are setup I do not think they where positioned to create space using the wall and roof reflections (which you would need for Atmos top signals) but more to create space by distance from the sound source. Both high and surround signals seem to have a large component coming directly from the sound source. This is of course very good to create space in a stereo mix but probably less to get the overhead back wall input as meant in Atmos.
If that is the case you probably should not put them in the standard Atmos surround (Ls Rs) and high channel (Lts, Rts erc.) position but probably you can maybe use them as objects.
The room reflections should then come from a reverb.
I strongly suggest to use four fixed, zero-width objects as "virtual speakers" for the top layer anyway. Just two positions up there will be sufficient for the occasional helicopter flight in a movie, but they are definitely not enough for a believable spatial impression of a room.
Indeed, I use the High L/R and the High Surround L/R microphone signals for those four overheads. Panned to +/-45 degrees azimuth and 45 degrees elevation respectively +/-135 degrees azimuth and 45 degrees elevation. So the top speaker locations for 7.1.4.
The three decca tree sources and all close microphones are panned as per their location in the images shown for each library in Fiedler SpaceLab as objects. They get an additional full sphere 3D reverb component. This is a bit similar to MIR 3D I think. The room is just no real venue but you can define the height of each source and also the listener position in the room.
The only issue with the four top signals provided in the SY libraries, recorded with an AKG414, is that they probably have a significant direct component apart from the component reflected from roof. It depends how the AKG414’s were oriented and which characteristic (omni, figure -8, kidney) was used.
@Mavros said:
The three decca tree sources and all close microphones are panned as per their location in the images shown for each library in Fiedler SpaceLab as objects.
I am looking into a similar setup where I bring back from VE Pro the Synchron player outputs for decca, surround, high, high surround. While mixing I output to a 7.1.4 channel config, then I export this, and import it into a new project with the Dolby Atmos renderer, where I route the 4 ceiling channels into separate objects.
I am curious why you decided to use Fiedler's Dolby Atmos Composer with SpaceLab instead the built-in surround panner and renderer. Would you be able to expand?
I also use VEPro for all channels I have two instruments with 7 or 8 microphone channels per instance.
I am using the Dolby Atmos Composer (DAC] in Cubase for several reasons. Although a bit unusual, I wanted to directly use the multichannel instrument tracks in the internal Cubase Dolby Atmos renderer rather than each time bouncing all tracks to audio before exporting to an ADM BWF file. Unfortunately, the Cubase internal renderer does not correctly export instrument tracks to an ADM BWF file. All the object panning is lost in the export. It is a bug as both Logic’s Atmos export to ADM BWF and the DAC can correctly export instrument tracks maintaining their panning. I reported the bug in the Steinberg Cubase forum as well as using a contact ticket but no response whatsoever till now.
What is also interesting is that DAC is not limited to 7.1.4 and a 7.1.2 bed. You can setup all in 9.1.6 and then monitor in the setup in your studio and at the same time listen to a binaural down mix using headphones. Furthermore DAC also has a possibility to check your master loudness and peak level and check before exporting and it can also load and master ADM BWF files. The only missing functionality is that it cannot generate mp4 files and check Apple spacial audio rendering (but it was announced for the next version).
The integration of the Spacelab 3D reverb with DAC is basically automatic but it can also be used with the internal renderers of Cubase and Logic. I very much like the way you can define the location of all objects as well as the listener position using x,y,z coordinates in a room of about 18x13x8.5 cubic meters. Based on the location of each object impulse responses are calculated to add reverb based on each object signal if so desired (dry/wet ratio). It can be tweaked with a lot of different parameters both for the object rendering as well as for the room character. It also includes a spacial EQ.
