Setup for Dolby Atmos with multiple SY Player instruments in Logic Pro 11

[Mavros]

After watching Paul's video

and reading the recommendations on the Dolby site I tested the Dolby Atmos setup with 6 SY library instruments Flute, Horn, Violins 1, Violas, Celli and Double Basses.

This is my setup open for improvements and discussion.

Based on the Dolby site recommendations I put all common "room" signals (Decca Tree L/R/C, Surround and High) in the the Dolby Bed and defined the remaining OVHD signal High Sur and the instrument dedicated mikes Mid, Close and if available Back as 3D objects.

You can allocate above mentioned "room" mikes by panning them in the surround panner planar view to match the shown microphone pictures at the outside of the planar circle. To get the High mike allocated to Ltm/Rtm you have to set it to 90 degree elevation. You can add a 7.1.2 level meter before the Atmos plugin in the master channel to check the correct allocation of all mikes. After this step you have a 5.1.2 setup as there is no Mid room mike. If anyone has ideas how to get a suitable "room" Mid speaker signal from the SY player that would be of interest.

Adding the High Sur as a 3D object panned as it is shown in the SY Stage layout in principle results in a 5.1.4 room. To this you can then add the Mid, Close and Back signals panned in orientation, depth and elevation as shown in the SY library orchestral layout or any other layout. I slightly elevated the instruments located in the 2nd and third row in the orchestra.

After this setup it is now possible to start listening to the available surround presets provided and play with the 3D object panning and microphone volumes as well as the distance parameter (Near, Mid, Far, Off) in the Dolby renderer. As I have no 7.1.2 setup yet in my case using the different headphone Dolby Atmos renderers.

[Mavros]

It would really be interesting to share your experience using the SY libraries and SY player in Dolby Atmos. Especially alternative ways of microphone routing.

By the way adding the Spacial plugin behind the Atmos one in Logic allows you to switch renderers and available audio setups easily. It also includes the Macbook build in Macbook speakers which can also produce an Atmos immersive simulation. I also found that there is a lot of difference between different headphones.

[Cyril Blanc]

It' look like there are not many user going for Dolby Atmos.

With the very little experience I have so far with Dolby Atmos there are 3 x ways ; it depends what you want to have in result.

1) If you want to have a massive sound you use VSL to "spread" the sound (VSL is not ready to place instruments on the top and back speakers only in MIR)

2) If you want to hear the instruments individually in a defined speaker ; you use the Atmos in Logic only to place your mono or very narrow stereo instruments in your room ; so you do not need a ton of microphones

3) I have experience to use MIR and to use Logic's Dolby Atmos's placement on my earphones only ; I have to return to the studio to hear the result ; this when I will return from sickness recovery.

As said in another thread, for earphones I have bought DVR Monitor, I am not convince.

The best is to have a 7.1.x installation in your studio

I have start to replace my old speakers with Adam's A series speakers* (600€ a piece !!!); this with the advice of one VSL staff, I am very happy of the result - Adam is the brand they use in there control room)

I will be pleased to hear other opinions.

Did you find out how a user can play a Dolby Atmos piece on his Iphone, on it's Mac, on his 7.x installation without using "Apple Music" or Logic ?
Is Apple "Music" App able to play Dolby Atmos ? is there is an App in the Window's world to do so ?

If you have a 7.x.x set for your TV set ; how can you play the Dolby Atmos piece ?

Cyril

* I cannot afford the other series VSL have in there control room

[Mavros]

Hi Cyril

Regarding equipment the audio interface is also a big challenge, As far as I could investigate only the Ambient Auria seems to be really designed for Dolby Atmos. On top of that it can apparently also play Apple Music Atmos pieces to use as mixing mastering reference which none of the other often much more expensive interfaces can do.

Making a piece ready for a streaming service is indeed very challenging. A friend of mine converts my exported ADM BWF files to mp4 (for our own use not commercial) but we are still battling with the volume differences on the different playback setups.

Back to the topic, with respect to the SY player I have now experimented with an Objects only configuration for all SY microphone signals. I only have reverb in the bed. This is more flexible and sounds a bit better. In Logic I have saved all 3D objects so you can recall them quickly for new instruments. What I am not sure about is if when you change a saved object in Logic all channels using it will also update or if you have to load the preset once again.

[Cyril Blanc]

Hi Mavros,

I use a Presonus Quantum 2626 that has 8 outs and I add the 2 outs of the Mac

I have watch the Audient ORIA presentation; looks great !

How did you friend convert your ADM BWF files to MP4 ?

[Cyril Blanc]

Hi Mavros

Did you look at Denon Dolby Atmos amplifiers they have many models like the DENON AVR-S770H (less than 500€)

I have an old Denon that was delivered with a calibration microphone.

[Cyril Blanc]

Hi Mavros

I got the answer from Dolby support. You need to by https://professionalsupport.dolby.com/s/article/How-do-I-QC-my-Dolby-Atmos-mix to convert the ADM BWF file to MP4

Hi Cyril,

You will need to use the Dolby Atmos Renderer application to export an MP4 file with Dolby Atmos for playback on various consumer devices.

Please see this article and link within for QC on IOS devices: https://professionalsupport.dolby.com/s/article/How-do-I-QC-my-Dolby-Atmos-mix

You can download the 90 trial of the Dolby Atmos Renderer to get started even if you are creating your mixes in Logic. The trial can be download here: https://customer.dolby.com/content-creation-and-delivery/dolby-atmos-renderer-v530

Best,

[Cyril Blanc]

VLC is able to play the Dolby Atmos AIF file, the app MUSIC won't play it😜

[Mavros]

My friend also used the official Dolby Renderer to produce the mp4 file.

Playback of the file is a bit strange. You can import it in the Apple Music App on your Mac where due to the extension it appears as a movie not a Dolby Atmos audio file but it sounds OK. The file will not be synchronized however by Apple Music . If you save the mp4 on your iCloud it does playback on an iPhone or iPad by simply clicking on it. On an Apple TV I can play it back using screen monitoring of my iPad. Apparently you can also use the Apple TV+ app to play it on an Apple TV. You have to import the file into the Apple TV app on your Mac and with the proper home sharing rights it will also appear in your Apple TV + app on your Apple TV devices.

[Cyril Blanc]

Hello @Mavros

Thanks for you answer.

By any chance do you know a free app to replace "The official Dolby Renderer" ?

What are the settings in Logic do you use to produce the file that will be converted to MP4 by the renderer ?

Do you have the possibility to test in the Window and Android world ?

Best

Cyril

[Cyril Blanc]

I found a good tutorial on YouTube :

[Mavros]

Hi Cyril I watched Paul's above mentioned video again and am somewhat confused about the heights entered for the L/R/C decca tree and for the high and high sur signals. I was under the assumption the actual microphone heights and X/Y positions should be entered which would than produce a "speaker" sound at that position which is going into the Atmos module. In the video the decca tree mics as well as the surround mics are put at zero height although the decca tree is probably at least a meter above the conductors ear, standing up, and the surround mics are probably on the same level. On the other hand the high and high surrounds are put at relative height 1.0 which for the Synchron Stage A would mean about 11 m (the dimensions of this venue are given in the MIR room package manual). I. could not find any concrete info in any of the manuals but in reality they are probably also at about 3-4 m above the stage level.

Do you have any thoughts about these heights and there relevance in reproducing the best possible SY Stage A ambiance in a Dolby Atmos project?

[Cyril Blanc]

Hello @Mavros

From the answer I just had from @Dietz, VSL is not going to have Preset for the new Synchron instrument in MIR PRO 3D
look at :
https://forum.vsl.co.at/topic/61539/new-solo-violin-and-solo-cello/2?_=1721481603393

Maybe MIR PRO 3D is not made for Dolby Atmos as they don't have solution for the back speakers, neither for the 2 or 4 speakers of the 7.1.2 or 7.1.4
They don't have a solution for 9.1.x !

So you just need one Mike for each instrument, you do not need all those microphone, that will save us to buy the full library 😀

The solution is to use Atmos only in Logic Pro

[Dietz]

@Cyril Blanc - Please do not spread misleading information.

Regards,

[Cyril Blanc]

@Dietz said:

@Cyril Blanc - Please do not spread misleading information.

Regards,

I do not spread misleading information you just said :

@Dietz - For all other sources, you have to decide yourself if you want to use MIR 3D for 3D spatialisation, or just the basic power-panning of Logic. MIR 3D per se neither produces ATMOS output (which is simply a proprietary delivery format by Dolby Labs), nor does MIR 3D rely on it.

So it confirm that MIR PRO 3D is not a Dolby Atmos solution, only a "specialisation" solution.

I forgot to mention that you cannot move an instrument in realtime in MIR, so Logic solution is not "basic"

As said before, VSL could add a Dolby Atmos 9.x.x venue and give the possibility to distribute the instruments.
But that mean quite a big Developpement and to pay for a Dolby Atmos license

Other solution is to use MIR PRO 3D and do the panning in Logic.

Question :
If you do not use MIR, what reverb will you use with Logic only solution ? a MIR X on every track ?

Kind regards

[Dietz]

@Cyril-Blanc said:
So it confirm that MIR PRO 3D is not a Dolby Atmos solution, only a "specialisation" solution.

No, I wrote "spatialisation", which is much more than just Dolby Atmos, as it isn't restricted to one proprietary format.

@Cyril-Blanc said:
I forgot to mention that you cannot move an instrument in realtime in MIR, so Logic solution is not "basic"

It is "basic" in the sense that it just changes levels, nothing else. If this fits our needs, go for it!

@Cyril-Blanc said:
As said before, VSL could add a Dolby Atmos 9.x.x venue and give the possibility to distribute the instruments.

Just select the proper Output Format in MIR 3D, and you're done. Here you see one of several presets available for this task:

@Cyril-Blanc said:
Other solution is to use MIR PRO 3D and do the panning in Logic.

Whatever fits your needs. This is quite contrary to the intended workflow of MIR 3D, but if you like the results you achieve like that - why not!

@Cyril-Blanc said:
If you do not use MIR, what reverb will you use with Logic only solution ? a MIR X on every track ?

Well - most MIR 3D users would say: Use MIR 3D. If you prefer your beloved Logic: Go for it. I don't understand the idea of using MIRx, though, as it is a legacy product that offers stereo spatialisation only, and it is available for Vienna Instruments exclusively.

[Cyril Blanc]

Hi @Dietz

You are in full contradiction, you say to use Logic with MIR but you say that VSL will not provide profile in MIR for the new Synchron Violin and Cello

@Dietz said:
Just select the proper Output Format in MIR 3D, and you're done. Here you see one of several presets available for this task

The image does not show where are placed the microphones
Is that a bunch of balloons😀

@Dietz said:
"spatialisation

That is what I mean, it is a typo

[Cyril Blanc]

this should be the representation of the microphones, to the user to place them.

[Dietz]

I see. Well, that's neither the way actual 3D recordings of any kind are made (be it 9.x.4 or any other format), nor the way MIR 3D works. If that's what you expect, then you should really think about selling your MIR 3D licence and read up on modern recording techniques.

[rAC]

@Cyril Blanc I think language may be getting in the way again. Reading @Dietz’s reply’s and your posts there seems to be a lot of cross purpose.