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  • CC 24 Filter Control

    Hi,
    I wanted to know what function this controller has and how to use it, if anyone has experience and would be kind enough to explain it. I have experimented with strings and my ears do not notice any change, it could be that I have otosclerosis.

    Thank


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    I don't know exactly what VSL had in mind for this filter but I regard it as a handy "distance increaser" - probably most relevant to those who reconfigure their orchestra's stage seating plan, or who want a somewhat more distant listening position.

    If you want to move an instrument or section further back on stage, and/or if you want a listening position further back in the auditorium, then first of course apply volume adjustment (-6dB for each doubling of distance to the listener), then just bring the filter in very gently and adjust it by ear until the relocated source sounds right for the new increased distance.

    Within the confines of a stage there's no more than a very subtle high frequency roll-off effect due to air absorption. But there may also be some 'screening' effect due to other musicians partly in front of the new playing position, or due to more audience members between the orchestra and the new listening position, to take into account.

    The filter (left at its -6dB/octave default setting) may help very nicely in these scenarios if used sensitively.

    If you're wondering about the degree of effect of the filter, I'd suggest first trying some experiments with a spectrum analyser (such as those built into many EQ plugins these days), so that you can see if and how the filter is having an effect on your selected sources.


    "The US 1st Amendment does NOT allow you to yell "FIRE!" falsely in a packed cinema, nor in an online forum." ~ Dobi (60kg Cane da pastore Maremmano-Abruzzese)
  • Hi Helmholtz,
    Thanks for the very good explanation.
    I'm going to continue experimenting with everything you suggest.
    Thank

    Antonio


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    Hello Antonio

    Here you get some more information...

    CC 24

    All the best and have fun

    Beat


    - Tips & Tricks while using Samples of VSL.. see at: https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/ - Tutorial "Mixing an Orchestra": https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/mixing-an-orchestra/
  • Hello Beat,


    Thank you for this great and good information.

    I have been on the YouTube channel, so much wisdom, thank you very much for sharing it.


    All the best

    Antonio


  • Hello Antonio

    Thank you for your kind reply.

    Here is a musical example where CC24 - i.e. the use of the filter - is almost mandatory: For long notes with dynamic changes over time. For example:

    Cherubim Hymn, Tchaikovsky

    Here it would not be possible to achieve crescendos/diminuendos over a longer period of time with just the volume change. The use of CC02 (VelX), CC11 (Expression = actual volume) and CC24 (Filter) and/or CC08 (Timbre) is therefore almost absolutely necessary.

    Unfortunately, when using all of these controllers, there is no getting around the fact that you usually have to do this manually. In any case, I always have trouble making such slow changes cleanly using any hardware (controllers). In general, of course, slow pieces are much more difficult to play sensitively with samples than fast ones, right?

    All the best

    Beat


    - Tips & Tricks while using Samples of VSL.. see at: https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/ - Tutorial "Mixing an Orchestra": https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/mixing-an-orchestra/
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    Hello Beat,

    As far as I'm aware, not only all Synchron libraries but also all Syz'd libraries can now make use of Synchron Player's Timbre control. This is a more realistic way of simulating the timbral changes associated with expressive dynamics, as compared to the simple low pass filter, and marks a welcome step forward from the days of the VI Pro player. But both together? I can't think of a realistic benefit of using that combination. However, perhaps in your last post above you were talking about various combinations of those controls you named but not including Timbre and Filter together?

    As for pure volume (CC11), I'll agree using this might be an additional necessity in some concert compositions because VSL's velocity layers, it appears to me, are aimed at the smaller dynamic range of music for media, Therefore, yes indeed, CC11 in combination with VelXF and Timbre might well be needed if writing and/or mixing concert works is the intention, although only for extending the instrument's dynamic range downwards towards or even including niente.


    "The US 1st Amendment does NOT allow you to yell "FIRE!" falsely in a packed cinema, nor in an online forum." ~ Dobi (60kg Cane da pastore Maremmano-Abruzzese)
  • Hello, Helmholtz and Beat,


    It would be good to use Timbre Control with winds and CC 24 for strings?


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    a_mozota_21,

    well perhaps first you would tell us what you find to be good about that idea? As I wrote above, personally I regard the CC24 filter as a static distance effect; I don't see — nor indeed hear — any virtue in using it as an alternative to Timbre for any instrument, and certainly not dynamically in combination with Timbre.

    But in any case, why not just let your ear's experience tell you what effects — whether inside or outside Synchron Player — yield the most authentic results in terms of your subjective impressions of distance and expressive dynamics?

    On the other hand, if audible authenticity isn't a priority for you, or if perhaps you ear isn't yet well enough accustomed to real orchestral music, then no amount of rules, methods and procedures can guarantee that your MIDI mockups will sound appealing, engaging and attractive to other listeners. Yet still it may be an engrossing and enjoyable hobby for you, and still be money and time well spent.


    "The US 1st Amendment does NOT allow you to yell "FIRE!" falsely in a packed cinema, nor in an online forum." ~ Dobi (60kg Cane da pastore Maremmano-Abruzzese)
  • Hello Helmholtz,

    As I already said, with the CC 24 control, although I have experienced little, I do not notice any changes and I do not use it (it may be that my ear bones are sclerosed), the opposite happens to me with the Timbre control .
    Neither the audible authenticity nor the authentic and human interpretation of and with an instrument is achieved by anyone with a virtual instrument (although I would like to get close) for that, I have my wooden instrument, bought in the city of Vienna.


  • @a_mozota_21326 said:

    Hello Helmholtz,


    As I already said, with the CC 24 control, although I have experienced little, I do not notice any changes and I do not use it (it may be that my ear bones are sclerosed), the opposite happens to me with the Timbre control .
    Neither the audible authenticity nor the authentic and human interpretation of and with an instrument is achieved by anyone with a virtual instrument (although I would like to get close) for that, I have my wooden instrument, bought in the city of Vienna.

    Hi Antonio

    As I explained on my website, you first have to configure the filter accordingly. If "Min and Max" are set to 20kHz each, you can move back and forth between the two values of CC24, but nothing happens. So 2.5kHz (Min) and 20kHz (Max) is used for hearing something.


    - Tips & Tricks while using Samples of VSL.. see at: https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/ - Tutorial "Mixing an Orchestra": https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/mixing-an-orchestra/
  • Hello Beat.

    I have followed your instructions and I notice how the sound softens.


    Thanks for your interest

    Antonio