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  4. Best way to create note-to-note glissandi

  • Best way to create note-to-note glissandi

    M
    M

    I am trying to create a mockup of a score having several note-to-note glissandi for the individual string instruments and trombone. Unfortunately my usual goto libraries Pro and Elite Strings have no glissandi. I do have FX Strings and Duality Strings CS but both have challenges as they do not have note-to-note glissandi. For brass it is more difficult neither SY Brass nor Dimension Brass which I have, have glissandi.

    Does anyone have a good methodolgy using these libraries or also altenative articulations (potamento?) to simulate such glissandi in a well sounding manner?

    There are two problems. The speed of the piece is very slow ; 50 BPM for 1/4 note and the gissano duration for each defined gliss is a full measure. Furthermore getting the correct end note with the limits of these libraries.

    Duality strings only has 2nd, 5th and octave interval glissandi. The score uses none of those. Using time stretching I think I can avoid that the glissando is activated multiple times during the measure but how to get the correct end note? till now Inwas not able to stop e.g. and octave glissando half way by reducing the BPM.

    FX Strings as far as I can hear has endless glissandi within the instrument range. In theory it would be possible to reduce the speed with time stretching to exactly reach the correct end note but it is challenging as there are 4-5 different glissando intervals per instrument. . FX Strings is also an ensemble library and using mainly the close, section, microphones it is difficult to match the sound with the rest of the score for which I would like to use Pro, Elite or Duality strings.

    For the trombones I experimented using portamento and putting all notes chromatically between starting and end note. Even with a very soft attack it does not give a very continous result however. Any better way?
  • M
    M

    In the mean time I did a lot of experimenting and also found the glissandi in Dimension Brass. They were under the performance tab.

    They have note-to-note glissandi but understandably the gliss only starts when the end note is pressed or in my case sent by the notation software. So it is still not possible to simulate a continous gliss from the starting to the end note. I get the best result by reducing the starting note length and lengthening the end note which actually produces the glissando. However with time stretching at its extreme minimum value of 30 BPM the end note is still reached way to early. Putting some intermediate glissandi notes between end and start to increase the gliss length is a posibilty but it is difficult to get rid of the attack of each intermediate note. As there are 4 trombones glissing at the same time varying the length of the intermediate notes can smooth out this effect.

    Any recommendations are welcome.

    For the strings I decided to use the Duality glissandi and match the chosen sample intervals 2nd, 5th and octave as well as possible to the required intervals and if needed also put an intermediate note. Also because time stretching cannot make a full measure at BPM 48 for ¼ sounds as glissando.
  • M
    M

    Does no one have any clever ideas how to best playback these slow long string and brass glissandi?
  • M
    M

    Although there does not seem a lot of interest in this topic but I did test another glissando playback posibility in Dorico.which might still iinterest someone.

    In Dorico 5 you can use continuous pitch bend changes for gilssandi. I set the pirch band range to 12 in both the Synchron player and the expression maps for the strings and horns and 7 for the trombones. This probably comes closest to the real thing as you can e.g. hear it for all instruments mentioned in JW, Close Encounters of the Third Kind Excerpts.
  • PaoloTP
    PaoloTP
    last edited
    last edited

    Something that I hope VSL will do is to use the existing tools and materials to create glissandi playback.

    Now, we have legato and portamento playback, but not glissando. The different of this latter is that the speed and interval has to be somehow determined before playing the first note.

    My idea is that the "performance glissando" system could work this way:

    • Choose the glissando up or down patch.
    • Play the starting note.
    • Use a CC to enter the interval in microtones (0 = unison, 48 = 12st, 4 = 1st, 2 = 1/4t, 1 = 1/8t). Maybe finer values could be chosen, but this seems fine enough, and easy to calculate.
    • Use another CC to define the length in tenths of a second (0 = immediate, 1 = 1/10th of second, 10 = 1s).

    If VelX is activated, maybe the Note Velocity could replace one of the controlling CCs.

    With MPE this could be very easy, and contined in the same Note event.

    With this data, Synchron Player could be able to adapt the pre-recorded glissandi to the programmed window.

    Paolo
  • M
    M

    Hi Paolo an interesting approach but not easy to apply if using a notation software. It could be done but would need a lot of additional hidden indications and automation in the score.

    The automatic pitch bend control dependent on the start and end note is a very elegant method. If that could be used on e.g. an octave gliss sample (or maximum possible gliss range for the instrument) that would probably improve the quality compared to the present method which raises the pitch of the start note sample. The issue as you mentioned remains how to control the speed defined by the gilss length in the score and the tempo.

    Question also remains of course what presently available samples to use. Existing samples of glissandi in the VSL SY and Syzd libraries vary in the way they were registered, in range and speed, and also in the way they can be activated. There is no consistency between VSL libraries. With the control parameters you define above you would still manipulate the samples similar to using a pitch bend and eventually time stretch or start delay.
  • PaoloTP
    PaoloTP
    @Mavros said:
    not easy to apply if using a notation software

    Being a Dorico user, I may find the use of CCs easier than what may appear to users of other notation programs. The 2-CC solution I suggested could be entered in two dedicated CC lanes, both open at the same time under the score.

    Maybe they could even work with Add-on techniques, limiting the choice of durations to some more typical values.

    I don't know which glissando sample would work better, but I guess that it would depend on the best result for any given interval and speed. Slower, smaller intervals could have a better resolution when combined into a larger interval.

    Paolo
  • PaoloTP
    PaoloTP

    I would go further. In my view, Synchron Player should be able to understand, when a Performance Glissando path is selected, text events of this type: "gliss -300c 1.5s", or "gliss trem +500c 1.25s", where the first word defines the technique, the second one (if any) its variation, then the up/down interval in cents, and the duration in seconds (allowing fractions).

    The Player will choose the right samples and calculate their time-stretching and interval.

    Paolo
  • M
    M

    Good ideas but there has not been any reaction by the VSL people on the topic in this forum. So there probably is no solution in the pipeline. Soundwise I personally like the FX Strings glissandi but best as mentioned they can not be matched with typical gliss notations in a score.

    Have you tried the continuous pitch bend method in Dorico on e.g SY Pro Strings? It does not sound bad. Especially if you have 10 or more sounding at the same time as in the Close Encounters JW score.