MIDI notes won't stop playing in Logic

[htokieda]

Hi,

I've been experiencing this issue where MIDI notes get stuck and won't stop playing when I run VE pro in Logic.

It continues even after sending discrete note offs and only stops when I play exact notes that are hanging on my midi keyboard.

It has nothing to do with the size of my project because the issue still happens with small projects.

I've also try running the same instruments directly wthin Logic and it worked no problem.

I know some people have already talked about the same issue in the past but I coundn't find any solutions so I decided to post again.

My specs are: Apple M1 Pro, OS Ventura, Logic 10.8.1

Thank you in advance.

[Cyril Blanc]

How much memory ?

You can check that you do not have a loop by placing a "monitor" object in you "Environnement" at different places.

If you want you can also post a reduced project, so I look at your Environnement ?

[Helmholtz]

Let's please not have any more self-appointed 'expert' Logic/VEP7 users trying to give the impression that the Logic/VEP7/Apple Silicon hanging-note problem is tractable within the user domain. We've already suffered far too much nonsense, misdirection and time wasted on that front.

Users simply don't know and cannot see or render visible the complete handling of Note Offs in Logic's Environment in recent versions - it seems to have been changed radically and positively by Apple - for reasons best known only to themselves. (I speak as a user with extensive experience in Logic's Environment over the past 22 years, and with a professional background in systems design engineering.)

All we do know right now as users is that there are currently reports of an ongoing note-hanging problem when using Logic and VEP7 with Apple Silicon, and that VSL's Developers have acknowledged this, are in liaison (as official 3rd party software developers) with Apple in trying to find a solution, and are repeatedly telling us that the AUv3 protocol used by VEP7 with Logic in Apple Silicon is currently still in Beta.

Can we PLEASE, PLEASE leave this to the Devs!

[htokieda]

@Cyril-Blanc said:

How much memory ?

You can check that you do not have a loop by placing a "monitor" object in you "Environnement" at different places.

If you want you can also post a reduced project, so I look at your Environnement ?

Thank you for your comment. I have 16GB ram.

I've never dealt with "Environment" in logic but will look into it.

[htokieda]

@Helmholtz said:

Let's please not have any more self-appointed 'expert' Logic/VEP7 users trying to give the impression that the Logic/VEP7/Apple Silicon hanging-note problem is tractable within the user domain. We've already suffered far too much nonsense, misdirection and time wasted on that front.

Users simply don't know and cannot see or render visible the complete handling of Note Offs in Logic's Environment in recent versions - it seems to have been changed radically and positively by Apple - for reasons best known only to themselves. (I speak as a user with extensive experience in Logic's Environment over the past 22 years, and with a professional background in systems design engineering.)

All we do know right now as users is that there are currently reports of an ongoing note-hanging problem when using Logic and VEP7 with Apple Silicon, and that VSL's Developers have acknowledged this, are in liaison (as official 3rd party software developers) with Apple in trying to find a solution, and are repeatedly telling us that the AUv3 protocol used by VEP7 with Logic in Apple Silicon is currently still in Beta.

Can we PLEASE, PLEASE leave this to the Devs!

I didn't know it was an ongoing issue because whatever posts I found on this issue are all from 6, 7 yeras ago so I thought I might be doing something wrong.

I hope they can find a solution to this soon.

I basically have to give up on using VE pro because of this.

[Cyril Blanc]

I am also a user with more than 22 year of intensive developpement with the environnement.

I have already correct a VSL environnement that had the same problem.

I tried to help !

[Cyril Blanc]

16 GB is not much, MAC OS uses most of it.

16 GB is ok if you do office work on a Mac, but not music with VSL instruments.

Replace your VSL instruments with Logic instrument and see if you have the problem.

Then do another trial and you use VI in Logic and test it

If you have no experience with Environnement you are going to sit down and cry !

What you can try :

place a monitor object before the VE instrument , Just play one note and see what is send. Post a screen copy of the content of the monitor object

You need to clear the display of the monitor object by clickink on it's window

@htokieda said:

@Cyril-Blanc said:

How much memory ?

You can check that you do not have a loop by placing a "monitor" object in you "Environnement" at different places.

If you want you can also post a reduced project, so I look at your Environnement ?

Thank you for your comment. I have 16GB ram.

I've never dealt with "Environment" in logic but will look into it.

[htokieda]

@Cyril-Blanc said:

16 GB is not much, MAC OS uses most of it.

16 GB is ok if you do office work on a Mac, but not music with VSL instruments.

Replace your VSL instruments with Logic instrument and see if you have the problem.

Then do another trial and you use VI in Logic and test it

If you have no experience with Environnement you are going to sit down and cry !

What you can try :

place a monitor object before the VE instrument , Just play one note and see what is send. Post a screen copy of the content of the monitor object

You need to clear the display of the monitor object by clickink on it's window

@htokieda said:

@Cyril-Blanc said:

How much memory ?

You can check that you do not have a loop by placing a "monitor" object in you "Environnement" at different places.

If you want you can also post a reduced project, so I look at your Environnement ?

Thank you for your comment. I have 16GB ram.

I've never dealt with "Environment" in logic but will look into it.

Yes, I've tested with logic instruments as well as loading the same instruments directly within logic but the issue didn't occur so I came to realize that it was most likely caused by VE Pro.

I know 16 GB is not enough but I doubt it's because of that since it happens with very small projects too.

I'll try looking into Environment setting.

Thanks for your help.

[Cyril Blanc]

you can remove your music and send me your empty song VE and will look at it

@htokieda said:

@Cyril-Blanc said:

16 GB is not much, MAC OS uses most of it.

16 GB is ok if you do office work on a Mac, but not music with VSL instruments.

Replace your VSL instruments with Logic instrument and see if you have the problem.

Then do another trial and you use VI in Logic and test it

If you have no experience with Environnement you are going to sit down and cry !

What you can try :

place a monitor object before the VE instrument , Just play one note and see what is send. Post a screen copy of the content of the monitor object

You need to clear the display of the monitor object by clickink on it's window

@htokieda said:

@Cyril-Blanc said:

How much memory ?

You can check that you do not have a loop by placing a "monitor" object in you "Environnement" at different places.

If you want you can also post a reduced project, so I look at your Environnement ?

Thank you for your comment. I have 16GB ram.

I've never dealt with "Environment" in logic but will look into it.

Yes, I've tested with logic instruments as well as loading the same instruments directly within logic but the issue didn't occur so I came to realize that it was most likely caused by VE Pro.

I know 16 GB is not enough but I doubt it's because of that since it happens with very small projects too.

I'll try looking into Environment setting.

Thanks for your help.

[htokieda]

@Cyril-Blanc said:

you can remove your music and send me your empty song VE and will look at it

@htokieda said:

@Cyril-Blanc said:

16 GB is not much, MAC OS uses most of it.

16 GB is ok if you do office work on a Mac, but not music with VSL instruments.

Replace your VSL instruments with Logic instrument and see if you have the problem.

Then do another trial and you use VI in Logic and test it

If you have no experience with Environnement you are going to sit down and cry !

What you can try :

place a monitor object before the VE instrument , Just play one note and see what is send. Post a screen copy of the content of the monitor object

You need to clear the display of the monitor object by clickink on it's window

@htokieda said:

@Cyril-Blanc said:

How much memory ?

You can check that you do not have a loop by placing a "monitor" object in you "Environnement" at different places.

If you want you can also post a reduced project, so I look at your Environnement ?

Thank you for your comment. I have 16GB ram.

I've never dealt with "Environment" in logic but will look into it.

Yes, I've tested with logic instruments as well as loading the same instruments directly within logic but the issue didn't occur so I came to realize that it was most likely caused by VE Pro.

I know 16 GB is not enough but I doubt it's because of that since it happens with very small projects too.

I'll try looking into Environment setting.

Thanks for your help.

I just messaged you privately.

Thank you very much!

[Cyril Blanc]

Hello

I had a look at the files received,

I had 3 crashes on "plug-in validation".

There is nothing weird in your environment

You use a lot of busses.

You need to narrow down your problem you have to find out if it is a Midi or an Audio Problem

What I will do :

• find you which instrument is causing the problem and if there is only one instrument check you do not have overlaping of the same notes. You can insert "force all note off" messages in your piece to narrow down the part. (I had this problem on a KT library)

i.e. Some players do not like not to receive a C3 "note off" message before a C3 "note on" one !!!!!😤 they think that the 1st C3 is not finished !

Otherwise :

• disable all effects plug ins
• If you still have the problem, disable all the Kontakt instrument and just keep VSL instruments
• if your problem is not solved, "sit down and cry"😀 and trash VE, use VI instead. It's very rare not to find a VST and an AU version of the same "professionnal" plug-ins

Good luck

P.S. Sorry for the typo, VSL should add a spell checker in the great new editor

[mileece]

I'm having the same problem with a note hanging on a new, clean and simple project. Extremely frustrating.

[Cyril Blanc]

Did you find out ?

@htokieda said:

Hi,

I've been experiencing this issue where MIDI notes get stuck and won't stop playing when I run VE pro in Logic.

It continues even after sending discrete note offs and only stops when I play exact notes that are hanging on my midi keyboard.

It has nothing to do with the size of my project because the issue still happens with small projects.

I've also try running the same instruments directly wthin Logic and it worked no problem.

I know some people have already talked about the same issue in the past but I coundn't find any solutions so I decided to post again.

My specs are: Apple M1 Pro, OS Ventura, Logic 10.8.1

Thank you in advance.

[KeplersConundrum]

Would love some communication from the developers with an ETA on a fix for this. Know it might be tough if the problem is on Apple's end, but an update would be nice. I've just had to rebuild my entire template without VEP. It works, but loading each project now takes an extra few seconds/minutes to load up depending on how many tracks I have activated...which isn't a huge deal, but those extra few moments of having to wait and load a track really can take me out of the zone. Hopefully a fix is coming soon so I can continue to use VEP!

@mileece said:

I'm having the same problem with a note hanging on a new, clean and simple project. Extremely frustrating.

[Dewdman42]

I just want to say FWIW, I am not having this hanging note problem at all on my system. I know that doesn't help you solve your problem per say, but perhaps it may help to isolate the issue. I am testing this with LogicPro 10.7.9 on MacOS Monterey 12.7.3, and its all running on Intel, not Apple silicon. That is also using AU3 with multiple midi ports in action into a single vePro instance with around 100 tracks.

I think I heard you say you're on Apple Silicon, probably using newer version of both MacOS and LogicPro...but anyway, maybe that can help isolate the problem. Unfortunately i can't replicate it here.

[KeplersConundrum]

Hey @Dewdman42,

I just moved from my old 5,1 running pretty much the same setup as you. Old system had no issues. Only bought the M2 Mac Studio at the end of last year for tax reasons. The fact you can't replicate it and that my old rig was solid as a rock definitely makes me think it is due to Apple silicon and the newest versions of Logic. Appreciate you chiming in, and hopefully a resolution is on the horizon!

@Dewdman42 said:

I just want to say FWIW, I am not having this hanging note problem at all on my system. I know that doesn't help you solve your problem per say, but perhaps it may help to isolate the issue. I am testing this with LogicPro 10.7.9 on MacOS Monterey 12.7.3, and its all running on Intel, not Apple silicon. That is also using AU3 with multiple midi ports in action into a single vePro instance with around 100 tracks.

I think I heard you say you're on Apple Silicon, probably using newer version of both MacOS and LogicPro...but anyway, maybe that can help isolate the problem. Unfortunately i can't replicate it here.

[Dewdman42]

I think probably at least one of those things, I would probably exclude the MacOS version from the equation and say most likely its related to either LogicPro or AppleSilicon. You can eliminate LogicPro as the culprit by running version 10.7.9 and see if that is still a problem for you on your system. If it works fine on your system with Logicpro 10.7.9, then we will know the problem is LogicPro version 10.8. If it continues to be a problem, then personally I think that would eliminate LogicPro as the culprit as a general case....however...

Apple silicon as the culprit is interesting, hard to say why that would happen under Apple Silicon and not with Intel, but it's certainly possible that either LogicPro or VePro has some kind of Apple Silicon bug in there, ....but I am also suspicious that the problem might be created by Rosetta plugin interactions from either LogicPro or VePro...so what you would want to do is to try to run tests with enough tracks to stress it..but eliminating all plugins that are not native Apple Silicon, in order to see if Rosetta handling of Intel plugins in some way is dropping some NoteOff events somewhere in there. Just a theory.. I don't have an Apple Silicon Mac to try any of this.

Otherwise, I feel for those of you struggling with this. Any other information you can provide about you specific VePro templates, if you are using AU3 or multiple midi ports, enviornment use, etc.. might help, but so far it seems like this is isolated to Apple Silicon mac's, which are usually also running a newer version of Logicpro and MacOS.

[KeplersConundrum]

So I just built a few small templates. One using multis and the other with just one individual instrument per instance. I used Berlin Woods in the SINE player for some of the tests, and Spitfire Chamber Strings in Kontakt 7 for some others. I used AU3 plugins in Logic for them, then another test with just the regular old VEP plugin. Guess which tests had hanging notes? Every test that used multis created hanging notes, regardless of AU3 or not. Every test I did with individual instruments didn't. Looks like Logic's multis are not only broken when dealing with adjusting negative track delays, but they give ya hanging notes with VEP as well! lol. Don't have a version of Logic 10.7.9 handy to see if it's a Logic version issue or not unforunately. So all tests were done on the newest versions of all systems.

@Dewdman42 said:

I think probably at least one of those things, I would probably exclude the MacOS version from the equation and say most likely its related to either LogicPro or AppleSilicon. You can eliminate LogicPro as the culprit by running version 10.7.9 and see if that is still a problem for you on your system. If it works fine on your system with Logicpro 10.7.9, then we will know the problem is LogicPro version 10.8. If it continues to be a problem, then personally I think that would eliminate LogicPro as the culprit as a general case....however...

Apple silicon as the culprit is interesting, hard to say why that would happen under Apple Silicon and not with Intel, but it's certainly possible that either LogicPro or VePro has some kind of Apple Silicon bug in there, ....but I am also suspicious that the problem might be created by Rosetta plugin interactions from either LogicPro or VePro...so what you would want to do is to try to run tests with enough tracks to stress it..but eliminating all plugins that are not native Apple Silicon, in order to see if Rosetta handling of Intel plugins in some way is dropping some NoteOff events somewhere in there. Just a theory.. I don't have an Apple Silicon Mac to try any of this.

Otherwise, I feel for those of you struggling with this. Any other information you can provide about you specific VePro templates, if you are using AU3 or multiple midi ports, enviornment use, etc.. might help, but so far it seems like this is isolated to Apple Silicon mac's, which are usually also running a newer version of Logicpro and MacOS.

[Dewdman42]

can you explain in more detail the exact setup of your multi's? I can try to replicate the issue on 10.7.9. Please describe exactly how the various tracks are feeding the tracks. Unfortunately I would probably not be able to open your LogicPro 10.8 project file, but you can always try to send me that too and I can just look at it myself if it will load, I would have to swap in different software instruments since i don't own the ones you mentioned.

I would be curious if you get the hanging notes using those same multi instruments directly in Logicpro without VePro at all.

we might be able to really narrow this down and pinpoint the exact problem

[KeplersConundrum]

Here's the two differnt ways I have things setup in VEP:

And here's how I have the multis setup in Logic:

Setting up multis this way within Logic without using VEP doesn't seem to create hanging notes.

Also, the hanging notes only seem to be happening with AU3 instances now. I know I had the issue happening with my template I built that wasn't using any AU3 instances, and it was happening during the tests I did yesterday. Not sure what's going on now. Maybe it only happens on larger instances/templates?

@Dewdman42 said:

can you explain in more detail the exact setup of your multi's? I can try to replicate the issue on 10.7.9. Please describe exactly how the various tracks are feeding the tracks. Unfortunately I would probably not be able to open your LogicPro 10.8 project file, but you can always try to send me that too and I can just look at it myself if it will load, I would have to swap in different software instruments since i don't own the ones you mentioned.

I would be curious if you get the hanging notes using those same multi instruments directly in Logicpro without VePro at all.

we might be able to really narrow this down and pinpoint the exact problem