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  4. VEP 7 server, Logic x AU3 plug in Stuck notes apple silicon

  • VEP 7 server, Logic x AU3 plug in Stuck notes apple silicon

    J
    J

    I'm still having a plethora of stuck notes of VEP7server with Apple X on apple silicon - (all running latest native, Logic, VE, Kontakt VE AU3 plug in loaded into Logic x). M2 laptop with 96 gigs of ram - super fast internal hard drive - 8 tb which is hosting all of the sample libraries...

    I've basically slowing rebuilding my template directly in logic for any sounds with susteain that needs a depndable "note off" message send form Logic X to VSL - leaving only one shot percussion sample libraries relaibe with VEP7 - this is a huge bummer, and I'm curious if other power users of big templates of VEP7 server and Locic X on apple silicon.  

    The problems seem most to occur when the STOP button is pressed on Logic x and samples are playing in VEP7 server - i.e. VE7server  is not getting a proper not off event from the host..... 

    Same problems in all of the latest Logic x betas I'm privy too -

    Also would love to hear any others users experience and similar issues (or lack thereof)

    thanks for your help!

    Jeff Beal
  • D
    D

    I don't think AU3 is past beta, and stuck notes are a problem. I'm not on new Apple silicon, I'm on a 2020 macpro rackmount intel. That said, I reverted away from AU3 and don't get stuck notes. But I have clicks and pops, and all sorts of buggery going on. On latest Ventura and LPX. This is not a happy setup. I should not have moved up from Catalina/10.6.7 LPX, as that was rock solid and I have major update regrets. I actually sent in a feedback to Apple last night after a rather less productive scoring session, and yes, I'm on a schedule. I really hope this LPX/Vepro situation gets sorted out. Cubase 11 pro does not exhibit any of these issues currently for me, but I'm not able to hard switch over, LPX is my Daw.

     Your issues are maybe different, but anyway there it is. Vienna support just replied to a few of my last emails, but they tend to stop and hope you just go away maybe. Maybe I should be bugging them more consistently?

     I've been on this LPX/Vepro train for a long time, and this all reminds me of the buggery that I was experiencing around LPX 10.2 or so. Really hope Apple provide VSL with the support we all are hoping for.

    Btw, I'm also getting sluggish performance, long save times and sporadic hard crashes for a local Vepro server, as well as inconsistent connections, dropped connections and possibly memory leaks ( saw the memory for lpx go up to 100 gb ) and can't justify that memory ramp up.

     I frankly don't care anymore why this is the experience, I know my system and tech. I can tell this is software related. Trouble is, I'm pretty sure the root cause is coming from Apple's side, but I just can't hard confirm. LPX on it's own seems just fine. Sigh.

     

    Macpro w/Lpx, 2nd Mac with Protools ( for dubber and video ), 4 pc slaves, Patchboard, Ipads/lemur/Osculator, Rednet ( separate network for audio and Vepro with cisco switches 

    @jeff_5479 said:

    I'm still having a plethora of stuck notes of VEP7server with Apple X on apple silicon - (all running latest native, Logic, VE, Kontakt VE AU3 plug in loaded into Logic x). M2 laptop with 96 gigs of ram - super fast internal hard drive - 8 tb which is hosting all of the sample libraries...


    I've basically slowing rebuilding my template directly in logic for any sounds with susteain that needs a depndable "note off" message send form Logic X to VSL - leaving only one shot percussion sample libraries relaibe with VEP7 - this is a huge bummer, and I'm curious if other power users of big templates of VEP7 server and Locic X on apple silicon.  


    The problems seem most to occur when the STOP button is pressed on Logic x and samples are playing in VEP7 server - i.e. VE7server  is not getting a proper not off event from the host..... 


    Same problems in all of the latest Logic x betas I'm privy too -


    Also would love to hear any others users experience and similar issues (or lack thereof)


    thanks for your help!


    Jeff Beal
  • Cyril BlancC
    Cyril BlancC

    The solution to put in Logic your VI is a good solution, this Is what I have done.

    You need to watch the SWAP on your MAC and re-boot if it is starting to increase. The best is to keep it at zero.

    Having huge template is not a good solution, you better use articulation switches.
  • D
    D
    last edited
    last edited

    Can you expand on that first sentence, not sure I fully understand ?

    As per the Swap file, not a good idea to disable as you may encounter kernal panics if you hit your ram memory limits. YMMV and so use at your own peril if you fully understand the implications of running without Swap. I don't need to go there.

    My memory leaks were from inside LPX. I'll go out on a limb and suggest/suspect that Vepro is not engaging the decoupled function, as this would explain the sluggish saves, expanded memory use. It does not explain the general connection issues.

    The hanging notes thing is related to AU3, so none of this helps Jeff I'm afraid.

     

    @Cyril-Blanc said:

    The solution to put in Logic your VI is a good solution, this Is what I have done.


    You need to watch the SWAP on your MAC and re-boot if it is starting to increase. The best is to keep it at zero.


    Having huge template is not a good solution, you better use articulation switches.
  • J
    J

    ok - so the stuck notes persist with AU3 even in intel machings - I have to use AU3 as it's the only version that correctly speaks to apple silicon - let's hope for a fix soon.

    re. workflow - I keep most of the VI's purged - but load time is way simpler using VEP server - vs. loading everything direclty into logic - I"m still averse to that if I can avoid it.  With memory disk speed it's not an issue at all - or at least it wasn't back in the intel day (which was running very reliable for over a decade with VSL sever and logic. 
  • HelmholtzH
    HelmholtzH

    Jeff, I'm not an Apple Silicon user but I can comment generically on the weird and unsupported 'prescription' posted above relating to memory swaps.

    If memory swaps are excessive they will reduce CPU efficiency to the point at which cores will saturate - if only very briefly - during realtime processing. I've never encountered and can't imagine such a condition selectively failing to process MIDI Note Offs without other malfunctions also being very obvious. Much more likely, you'd start hearing the awful audio crunching and other obvious mess as cores are driven into saturation and fail to get everything done within the sample period.

    So I'd treat that 'prescription' with a large grain of salt!

    The circumstance that concerns you most, as you said, is when stopping playback. Total bummer, I agree. But at least it's a very specific and strong clue for VSL to investigate. Even so, I fear VSL will yet again declare that VEP AU3 is still in Beta, perhaps pending further work from Apple.

    "The US 1st Amendment does NOT allow you to yell "FIRE!" falsely in a packed cinema, nor in an online forum." ~ Dobi (60kg Cane da pastore Maremmano-Abruzzese)
  • Andreas8420A
    VSL Team
    Andreas8420A
    @Helmholtz said:
    Even so, I fear VSL will yet again declare that VEP AU3 is still in Beta, perhaps pending further work from Apple.

    Unfortunately, that's exactly the case. We have been in contact with Apple development for months, trying to push this issue forward. 🙁

    VSL Team | Product Specialist & Media Editing
  • J
    J

    Thanks Andreas - so Apple hasn't offically "certified" AU3 as a viable plug in format, or VSL AU3 plug in is still being worked on? the needed input from Apple would suggest Apple needs to finish work on the AU3 spec in general?  Now I'm more than confused! - thanks

    @Andreas8420 said:
    @Helmholtz said:
    Even so, I fear VSL will yet again declare that VEP AU3 is still in Beta, perhaps pending further work from Apple.

    Unfortunately, that's exactly the case. We have been in contact with Apple development for months, trying to push this issue forward. 🙁
  • J
    J

    Thanks Helmholtz - yes, exactly - the swap issue is def. not the "fix" for something so basic as what I'm describing and has kept $1000s or dollars in apple silicon hardware in a werid kind of software not quite ready purgatory - as least as far as VEP7 server and its usefulness are concerned. 

    @Helmholtz said:

    Jeff, I'm not an Apple Silicon user but I can comment generically on the weird and unsupported 'prescription' posted above relating to memory swaps.


    If memory swaps are excessive they will reduce CPU efficiency to the point at which cores will saturate - if only very briefly - during realtime processing. I've never encountered and can't imagine such a condition selectively failing to process MIDI Note Offs without other malfunctions also being very obvious. Much more likely, you'd start hearing the awful audio crunching and other obvious mess as cores are driven into saturation and fail to get everything done within the sample period.


    So I'd treat that 'prescription' with a large grain of salt!


    The circumstance that concerns you most, as you said, is when stopping playback. Total bummer, I agree. But at least it's a very specific and strong clue for VSL to investigate. Even so, I fear VSL will yet again declare that VEP AU3 is still in Beta, perhaps pending further work from Apple.
  • Cyril BlancC
    Cyril BlancC

    I do not use VE, only VI in Logic. VE is putting overhead on your AU and Logic does not spread the load over the cores.

    I did not say to disable the SWAP, re-read 

    When your Mac is swaping it is storing and retriving pages/blocks from the disc.

    It's ok when you do word processing, tables ... but not for Apps that has to work in real time like our DAW programs.

    @dgburns said:

    Can you expand on that first sentence, not sure I fully understand ?


    As per the Swap file, not a good idea to disable as you may encounter kernal panics if you hit your ram memory limits. YMMV and so use at your own peril if you fully understand the implications of running without Swap. I don't need to go there.


    My memory leaks were from inside LPX. I'll go out on a limb and suggest/suspect that Vepro is not engaging the decoupled function, as this would explain the sluggish saves, expanded memory use. It does not explain the general connection issues.


    The hanging notes thing is related to AU3, so none of this helps Jeff I'm afraid.


     


    @Cyril-Blanc said:

    The solution to put in Logic your VI is a good solution, this Is what I have done.




    You need to watch the SWAP on your MAC and re-boot if it is starting to increase. The best is to keep it at zero.




    Having huge template is not a good solution, you better use articulation switches.
  • D
    D
    @Cyril-Blanc said:

    I do not use VE, only VI in Logic. VE is putting overhead on your AU and Logic does not spread the load over the cores.


    I did not say to disable the SWAP, re-read 


    When your Mac is swaping it is storing and retriving pages/blocks from the disc.


    It's ok when you do word processing, tables ... but not for Apps that has to work in real time like our DAW programs.


    @dgburns said:

    Can you expand on that first sentence, not sure I fully understand ?




    As per the Swap file, not a good idea to disable as you may encounter kernal panics if you hit your ram memory limits. YMMV and so use at your own peril if you fully understand the implications of running without Swap. I don't need to go there.




    My memory leaks were from inside LPX. I'll go out on a limb and suggest/suspect that Vepro is not engaging the decoupled function, as this would explain the sluggish saves, expanded memory use. It does not explain the general connection issues.




    The hanging notes thing is related to AU3, so none of this helps Jeff I'm afraid.




     




    @Cyril-Blanc said:


    The solution to put in Logic your VI is a good solution, this Is what I have done.






    You need to watch the SWAP on your MAC and re-boot if it is starting to increase. The best is to keep it at zero.






    Having huge template is not a good solution, you better use articulation switches.

    Ok Cyril, er...thanks for clarifying? So based on what you are proposing, you appear to be running a machine with not alot of memory ( hence you watching your swap file size ) and proposing VEPro is taking much overhead in Logic. I think I can appreciate where you're coming from. Seeing as the original poster is running a fairly powerfull ( and likely spec'd out mac ) the overhead experienced is negligible. In my case the cpu meters show my mac is so under tasked it's not an issue, while a full template is loaded and significantly populated with midi/audio + stems etc. I'll still use Vepro because it offers other benefits based on my experience with it.

     Vepro7 V 7.3.3440 just dropped, so I'm stopping work to install ( with fingers crossed ) 
  • Cyril BlancC
    Cyril BlancC

    Hello dgburns

    My Mac is 64 GB and 4TB internal M2 SSD

    I did not say that VE is using much overhead ; it is using overhead as it is a task that run another tasks.

    One of the full orchestra piece I am working, using a lot of VI instrument and a few Kontakt ; Logic is using 22,32 GB and Mir Pro 1023,6 MB

    I have two venue in Mir Pro, one for the full orchestra and one for the choir (see screen copy)

    On the Tutti at the end of this piece you can see the memory pressure is not very high (see screen copy)

    @dgburns said:

    Ok Cyril, er...thanks for clarifying? So based on what you are proposing, you appear to be running a machine with not alot of memory ( hence you watching your swap file size ) and proposing VEPro is taking much overhead in Logic.
  • S
    S

    Hi Cyril,

    as I still wait for a solution, for the use of multiports with VEpro in combination with Logic, its interesting to see your picture of Mir.

    Do you use MirPro in Logic with multiple instruments? How does it work?

    Back in the days I had a working system with a PC slave running VePro with Mir, it was fantastic.

    Now I would like to work with all (VEpro, MirPro and Logic) on my MAC Studio Max (M1), which seems to be difficult.

    best greetings,

    Sagi

    @Cyril-Blanc said:

    Hello dgburns


    My Mac is 64 GB and 4TB internal M2 SSD


    I did not say that VE is using much overhead ; it is using overhead as it is a task that run another tasks.


    One of the full orchestra piece I am working, using a lot of VI instrument and a few Kontakt ; Logic is using 22,32 GB and Mir Pro 1023,6 MB


    I have two venue in Mir Pro, one for the full orchestra and one for the choir (see screen copy)


    On the Tutti at the end of this piece you can see the memory pressure is not very high (see screen copy)










    @dgburns said:

    Ok Cyril, er...thanks for clarifying? So based on what you are proposing, you appear to be running a machine with not alot of memory ( hence you watching your swap file size ) and proposing VEPro is taking much overhead in Logic.
  • Cyril BlancC
    Cyril BlancC
    last edited
    last edited

    Hi Sagi


    as I still wait for a solution, for the use of multiports with VEpro in combination with Logic, its interesting to see your picture of Mir.


    Do you use MirPro in Logic with multiple instruments? How does it work?

    Yes I do, look 😀
  • S
    S

    But how does it work? Do you start a Mir for every channel and they all connect ? They all are in one Mir-Space?
  • Cyril BlancC
    Cyril BlancC

    @Sagi said:

    But how does it work? Do you start a Mir for every channel and they all connect ? They all are in one Mir-Space?

    No one instance of Mir is started automaticaly

    To start you define one venue

    If needed you can now have multiple venue in one instance of Mir Pro

    In my setup all the orchestra is in Sychron Wide venue and the choir are in Perneg venue

    The best is you just try, it works great !

    I am moving to an M3 because I want to go to Doby Atmos and my 2019 Macbook pro is a bit short for this and now Mir pro is run in the GPU and because I sell all my drums, amplifiers and PA
  • S
    S

    @Cyril-Blanc said:

    Thank You for explaining 😊


    @Sagi said:

    But how does it work? Do you start a Mir for every channel and they all connect ? They all are in one Mir-Space?


    No one instance of Mir is started automaticaly


    To start you define one venue


    If needed you can now have multiple venue in one instance of Mir Pro


    In my setup all the orchestra is in Sychron Wide venue and the choir are in Perneg venue


    The best is you just try, it works great !


    I am moving to an M3 because I want to go to Doby Atmos and my 2019 Macbook pro is a bit short for this and now Mir pro is run in the GPU and because I sell all my drums, amplifiers and PA