Mir Pro and working with chamber ensembles

[Cadenza]

Hi! 

I am currently working on a string quartet and have set up a string quartet in the Schubert Saal (Mir Pack: Vienna Konzerthaus). When I start to play my file from Finale to VEPro the instruments (Dim.strings and VI solostrings)  volume suddenly drops down to -21db. This causes problem since I also uses Sample Modellings Solo Strings at the same time and it doesn't get affected, even if it is set in the same Mir Pro.

I can hardly hear the Vienna instruments. I have to correct the individual volume settings every time I open the files. 
I've tried to make up a new set up in VEPro and in Finale (in Score Manager)  but as soon I design a channel to a Vienna Instrument, it will cause the same effect. How to avoid this quite irritating issue? 

All the best, 

Anders 

[Dietz]

Hi Anders,

this sounds a lot as something re-triggerd the assignment of the so called "Natural Volume" for that channel. At least your screenshot shows that you have set the Volume of that instance to this value:

Please switch off the Preference that will activate that feature automatically when changing the instances Instrument Profile and see if it helps:

[Cadenza]

Hi Dietz, 

it helped, thanks a lot! 

All the best, 

Anders

[Dietz]

That's good to hear!

I still don't understand what triggers the assignment of the Instrument Profile on the fly (... because that must be the actual reason for that unwanted behaviour) ... :-/

[Cadenza]

Hi again, 
I guess the ¨reason¨ to that behaviour is sitting and tapping this answer to you... ;)
I might have pressed that button in search for the most realistic performance, but now I understand that the volume setting is in a context of an orchestra, right? And while speaking of it - there's no special accoustic for the Schubertsaal like there is for Grosser and Mozart Saal, so I guess I shouldn't load the role of ¨01 Violin I solo 1st chair¨  etc. and just keep to ¨99 MirX General Purpose Solo ¨ ? 

All the best, 
Anders

[Dietz]

@Cadenza said in [Mir Pro and working with chamber ensembles](/post/317766):

[...] I understand that the volume setting is in a context of an orchestra, right?

Yes, or more specifically: Natural Volume is meant as a starting point for virtual orchestration with Vienna Instruments. The values are meaningless for all other signal sources.

@Another User said in [Mir Pro and working with chamber ensembles]:

And while speaking of it - there's no special accoustic for the Schubertsaal like there is for Grosser and Mozart Saal, so I guess I shouldn't load the role of ¨01 Violin I solo 1st chair¨  etc. and just keep to ¨99 MirX General Purpose Solo ¨ ?

Ooops, I think there might be some serious confusion of features and their terms going on. :-D ... I'll try my best to clarify the situation.

- "special acoustics" ... I assume you mean full-blown Venue Presets for specific halls, with suggested setups for more or less all Vienna Instruments, don't you? In MIR3 3D they are called "Vienna Standards", and they are basically identical with legacy MIR Pro's "MIRx Mode". Is a preset-only product for Vienna Instruments derived from MIR Pro, and in MIR 3D we added the possibility to create and save your own "MIRx"-like settings, too. Since not all halls are suitable for the use of 400+ instruments, there are currently "Vienna Standards" for only seven MIR Venues at the moment, that's true.

- "Roles" ... they are the link between the specific usage of a certain instrument in a Venue. For example, if you have a favorite violin sample that finds use as solo instrument as well as a virtual "first chair" on other occasions, you will create two "Roles" for it, in each Venue you like to use it in. Once the Role is assigned and saved as part of a Venue Preset, this function will "magically" be recalled once you load another Venue Preset (no matter if it is based on the same or a different hall). 

It's important to understand that YOU DON'T HAVE TO use Roles! :-) It's just an additional preset layer that allows the creation of complex templates while still being able to "switch room" with a simple mouse click. It's equally important to understand the concept of "Instrument Profiles", which fundamentally determine the interaction of the source signal from a chosen position in a chosen hall. They were implemented with Vienna Instruments in mind, too.

- "01 Violin I solo 1st chair¨ / ¨99 MirX General Purpose Solo" .. the main difference between the two is that the former was hand-crafted for Vienna Instruments Solo Violin 1 and its possible uses (using its dedicated Instrument Profile, hand-crafted Character EQ setting etc.), while the latter is aimed at all kinds of 3rd-party signal sources: Its Directivity Pattern uses simple volume-dependent shapes (opposed to the complex, also frequency-dependent shapes used for Vienna Instruments), and there are no elaborate Character EQs available. 

... long story short: When switching from a Venue built with "Vienna Standard" settings to a hall that doesn't offer the same depth of presets, you should keep the Instrument Profile (IOW: don't switch to a "General Purpose" profile). But you should make sure that both the assigned Character- and Room-EQ still make sense. The former will most likely fit, the latter most likely not any longer, for obvious reasons.

HTH,

[Cadenza]

Hi again! 

And thanks for a very detailed answer, of which I have to study and draw new conclusions concerning my project which I'm working on. 

I do have an immediate question: If I decide not to use the roles, especially when I'm in this case uses 3rd part library - how do I then delete the roles? 

 

All the best, 

Anders 

[Dietz]

You don't have to delete anything, really. :-)

As soon as you change any parameter, the settings are all yours. This is true for both the instrument-related parameters as well as all Venue-related ones. Your DAW will happily save them. 

All the presets shown and organized by MIR 3D's Preset Manager are only important when you want to save and/or recall specific data _within_ a MIR session, or when switching Venues with an orchestra readily seated.

For 3rd-party signal sources simply use one of the so-called "General Purpose" Instrument Profiles (not necessarily a Role!). Your safest bet is the one that applies a "cardioid" sound emanation pattern*) to your source signal, but depending on the signal type broader (e.g. for bass-heavy instruments) or narrower profiles (e.g. high-pitched brass!) will work, too.

*) That's something people tend to misunderstand: These Instrument Profiles are _not_ about microphone polar patterns, but they determine how an MIR Icon / an instrument interacts with the room from a chosen position. IOW: "How it sends sound into the room".

HTH,

[Mary]

Hi Maestro Dietz,

What would we do or where would we be without you Dietz! Thank you so much for your time and patience you so kindly spent on us simple "Mortals". Most appreciated! 

 

Best regards,

Willem