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  4. Dynamics in Prime with Dorico

  • Dynamics in Prime with Dorico

    R
    R

    Hi!

    I use Prime with Dorico and it works really, really nice! I did observe, however, that the dynamics don't seem to have any effect. When entering a Tambourine tremolo that develops from pp to ff over one 4/4 bar in q=60 there is almost no audible crescendo. Other libraries create a huge cresc.

    I am aware that VSL does many things differently than others, so I wonder if I have missed something, when it comes to dynamics in Dorico. So far I didn't find out what. Does anybody have a hint or a tip for me? Thank you!

    Macbook Pro 16GB Ram M1
    SY Prime
    VEP 7.1.1427
  • Andreas8420A
    VSL Team
    Andreas8420A
    last edited
    last edited

    Hi Rowild,

    This might help: VSL for Dorico - Optimization Guide

    In short: Make sure to activate Velocity Crossfade to control dynamics gradually. Enabling & Disabling can also be automated via CC28.

    Happy Holidays,
    Andreas

    VSL Team | Product Specialist & Media Editing
  • R
    R
    last edited
    last edited

    Thank you, Andreas, once again for your quick help!

    I worked through the article and implemented a CC 28 "track" in the Dorico key editor, but to it seems that I do not get the proper result. There might be a little bit of crescendo, but this is definitely no "ppp to fff" dynamic change.

    I made a little video (Camtasia cannot get the system audio while the Dorico audio engine is running, so the sound is recorded via the Macbook mics - sorry for that!). Do you by any chance see, what kind of mistake I am making here?

    EDIT:
    In the Synchron Player I can see that cc 28 is turned on and off and also how the slider changes. o that seems to work. But CC 11 is not doing anything. Is CC 11 not "managed" by Dorico's dynamic inputs?

    VSLU0020inU0020DoricoU0020-U0020dynamicsU0020problem.mp4-1696286472209-03qmu.mp4
  • andiA
    VSL Team
    andiA

    Hello rowild!

    I can hear in your example that crescendo is working as expected. Please note that oboes don't have a gigantic dynamic range. You can always enhance this range by additionally automating CC11 in a controller lane.
    If you always want to enhance the range of an instrument, you can do so by controlling the expression fader and the VelXF fader with the same controller (CC1 with Synchron Prime Edition). In order to avoid a completely exaggerated dynamic range, I would limit the effect for the expression fader. This can be done on the CONTROL page of Synchron Player (see screenshot).

    Best regards,
    Andi

    Image

    Vienna Symphonic Library
  • R
    R

    HI, Andreas!

    Thank you for your feedback! It is a little hast to believe that oboes in VSL have such a small dynamic range. The reality is quite a bit different. Aside from that this little dynamic range as demonstrated in the video is also true für flute, clarinet and even brass.

    I will try to do as you recommend and play around with the expression fader (but I still need to learn how to apply all those CCs to my keyboard and how to correctly use them all in together; do I have to record the expression fader separately? Or do I only "draw" this line in my DAW [here Dorico]? These are my beginner questions I am struggling with :-) ...)

    Without any "stupid" intensions I would like to mention that BBC SO Pro is way richer in dynamic range. Or easier to handle when it comes to realising them in Dorico. Why is there such a difference in libraries? (Again: true interest on my side and therefore an honest question!) 
  • andiA
    VSL Team
    andiA

    Hi rowild!

    If you work with Dorico, you don't have to assign the CCs to your keyboard. You can simply draw lines in Dorico to automate CC11.

    On rewatching your video it seems to me that your "dynamics" curve doesn't go all the way up. Maybe you don't reach the loudest samples.

    Anyway, I don't think that it is particularly hard to use the dynamic range of our samples. In most cases you shouldn't have to touch anything. If you want to edit something, you can do so.

    Best regards,
    Andi

    Vienna Symphonic Library
  • R
    R

    Hi, Andi!

    Thanks so much for your patience and your continuous support! Very much appreciated!

    Yes, I need to go to the extreme with the lines, you are right. And there is also the volume fader on the instrument and the main volume... I'll slowly get it.
    Thank you for the hint with not having to assign CCs to my keyboard! 

    Something different:
    Is it in your powers to change the duration of the logged-in status here in the forum? Activating the "Remember me" checkbox does not seem to change anything, whenever I close the browser and re-open again, I am logged out.

    My best wishes to you for a creative and motivating 2023! 

    Robert
  • andiA
    VSL Team
    andiA

    Hi Robert!

    Great to read that you are making progress. I will forward your message, that you always have to log in anew on the website.

    Best regards,
    Andi

    Vienna Symphonic Library
  • R
    R

    Hi, Andi,

    first of all: Prosit 2023!

    I am still confused and wanted to ask for you help again:

    Previously yo mentioned that I can "enhance this range by additionally automating CC11 in a controller lane" . But actually I wonder why this is not done automatically via the Dynamics control lane in Dorico? When Velocity controls CC 1 in SYNCHRON Player, shouldn't then Dynamic controls CC 11? And if now: what does the Dynamics control lane actually do then? Because there are dynamic changes, but I cannot see any fader changes (due to "Dynamics") in SYNCHRON Player?
  • andiA
    VSL Team
    andiA

    Hi rowild!

    A happy new year to you too.
    Dynamic marks in Dorico control Velocity AND VelXF in Synchron Player. If you have VelXF turned off, the dynamic layers get chosen by velocity. If VelXF is turned on, the dynamic layers get chosen (and crossfaded) by the position of the VELXF fader.

    As far as I know the dynamic lanes in Dorico are just an alternative to writing dynamic marks in the score.

    Best regards,
    Andi

    Vienna Symphonic Library
  • L
    L

    the dynamic lanes in Dorico use the  notated dynamics and the value of the controller which is assigned to be the primary controller (volume dynamic) in the Expression Map. CC11 only controls the secondary dynamic if you set it to do so in the EM. If you simply tick "use secondary dynamic" then the value will be set to match that in the volume dynamic but you are free to scale, the secondary dynamic by changing the max and/or min values as shown in the illustration (using solo strings -- I don't have the Prime library). I do this with most VSL libraries, otherwise the dynamic contrasts can be too large if using VelXF patches which I always do with VSL libraries.

    Image
  • R
    R

    Thank you so much, Andi and lunar_28664! Things start getting clearer and clearer...