Thank you, Paul, for the reply!

The video explains a lot. But if those are all options then this move to iLok don't get us rid of dongles, because in my situation I should buy dongle to run two VEPro servers. Also there can be another situation: use libraries in master computer, but server on slave computer to load more bigger libraries, such as BBC SO by SpitfireAudio. With iLok cloud I cannot manage this. I can run all licenses in one computer.

And if I don't have internet instantly in studio, then I cannot run anything without dongles. Right? iLok Cloud don't run without internet even cloud was activated on computer where I want to run server. And I cannot move licenses between iLok Cloud and iLok dongle without internet.

So again - dongles, zero downtimes...

How Native Instruments are managing their product licenses? No dongles, no clouds, install on two computers, no internet needed when all is set up.

So my question - can I create second account to use on server and transfer server license to it? (wasn't answered). Additionally - can I register second iLok account in VSL profile (and should I do that?)?

Some pro say - computer for music isn't for internet... (in case if we are pro).

@ANeeman said:

How Native Instruments are managing their product licenses? No dongles, no clouds, install on two computers, no internet needed when all is set up.

And NI products can be easily pirated

@Bill said:

And NI products can be easily pirated

Okay, but Spitfire Audio? No dongles, no internet, no no no... I never heard about pirated Spitfire Audio libraries.

I use everything legal (EVERYTHING!!!), but I see in internet everything is available as "try before buy". So with any protection developers just playing with real and serious users, but not fighting against piracy. I'm programmer and I know how to debug a compiled program and do reverse engineering just to get a protocol or operation flow inside program. If someone create a protection, there will be another bunch of wise people who can do reverse. Sadly, but this is reality.

This "dongle-free" movement is just a marketing trick.

BTW my next question will be: can I install previous versions and use eLicenser? I suppose no, because Steinberg will kill eLicenser server after everything will be dongle-free.

So no one answered to my question - can I create second account and transfer server license using iLok Manager? With current iLok Cloud policy they (VSL) thought that everything from VSL is running on one machine - server, but main computer just load non-licensable plugin. I think better would be if server would run without a license, but it controls who is connecting - is there on that machine a server user license. Otherwise why server is controlling the count of connected users?

No one can tell me how I can use dongle-free software without internet. If I disconnect network cable, in next 5 seconds I have message about everything goes off and my dongle-free dream falls into ocean of disappointments.

Lot of misunderstandings from me, lot of questions, lot of disappointments and I understand that there is no way to reach my happiness. If I could know that I never bought anything from VSL. But the sound is gorgeous! Better than overcompressed English libraries.

If someone has a pirated copy of Kontakt, they can use any Kontakt library.

I would like to state that this thread is about the dongle-free problem that occurs in my studio, not about the Kontakt and piracy.

I hope Paul will read all unread replies here.

In addition - both my "Vienna Ensemble Pro 7" licenses are not transferrable to another account. So this is the answer to my very first question. (Thanks!)

So at this point I really don't understand how I can use both of my VEPro7 licenses. Very logical would be if I could use the same cloud from both my computers and this way iLok Manager could control which computer uses what.

It seems that it would be very logical to allow activate licenses on all available media including computer itself (now it is only dongle and cloud).

Hi,

Just posted this video about your options with VE Pro 7 and iLok.

Best,
Paul

Thank you, Paul.

I understood from your first reply that I need iLok key. I don't have any and in case we are going to reach dongle-free setup I really don't want to buy one. Otherwise I don't see it serious to switch from one dongle to another.

I have two eLicenser dongles and all was working well.

Why VSL licenses are not available to activate on machine? Otherwise the term "cloud" cannot be applied to this pseudo cloud, because it's just a pocket. With a "cloud" in computer technology we understand a controlled access by multiple users from anywhere. In case of software licensing there could be only a check of which computer can access which library or software. As it logically should be.

I would like to buy another BBO library for 65 euros, not paying 55 euros for iLok dongle to use it in "dongle-free" setup.

I reinstalled previous version of VEPro7 on my slave computer and now everything is working as before. All dongles are connected and I'm ready to compose on pseudo-dongle-free setup.

P.S. One little bug in new VEPro7 (version 7.1) - if I load a server project saved with version 7.0 and there were used Vienna Matrix Mixer Pro, it isn't recognized.

Hi, 

Just quickly addressing all the points you made:

• Machine-based licensing is not safe enough for our niche product. It would be cracked within minutes. 
• iLok currently allows ONE Cloud Session per account.
• Terminology is always up for discussion, but we don't have an influence on this. 
• If you purchase a new product, you will have to switch all other products for that players to iLok. No way around it. 
• Please send such a project to support@vsl.co.at, we will take a look!

Best, 
Paul

Okay, Paul, all is clear, but there are inconvenience you really don't want to understand or ignore.

In a version of one eLicenser dongle many users were able to run any library and soft without internet. Right? Now it's gone. If they use iLok Cloud they need an internet connection to start VEPro7.

The phrase "now all computers are connected" won't work in many cases. So many of us are pressed to buy iLok dongle. As I wrote - then why this move? eLicenser was working great for years. But if one company is going to get rid of dongles, then another company entangles nets deeper with dongle system. If your company has good programmers who made such great players and libraries, why they don't made autonomous licensing system like Steinberg did, like SpitfireAudio have for years???

I understand that you are tired of me, but please take it serious...

About your point "Machine-based licensing is not safe enough for our niche product. It would be cracked within minutes.", please open Google and type "crack iLok". Probably you will be surprised. So if someone need to get any software for free, he can get it in many ways. Less than a minute!

Here is the excerpt from post in KVRaudio forum:

"If you are using iLok now, you are losing business. I, and many like me, will never ever buy your product. iLok inconveniences your *legit* customers. It does nothing to prevent piracy, any decent cracker can crack iLok protected code and any idiot can find cracks online. If we purchase your software, it's because we believe in supporting companies and doing the right thing. It's not because we have to because of your obsolete technology choices. All iLok does is make my life more difficult should I choose your product, and with all the fantastic new plugin companies that don't use it, I don't need to put up with that."

So please work with customers, not with pirates! They were, are and will be always. As I said if there is one wise man who invented uncrackable system, there will be ten or hundreds the same wise people who can crack it. The excerpt tells everything - "iLok inconveniences your *legit* customers".

I understand that the truth is in both sides, but you and your team should know how inconvenient can be this move for some (probably for many) of your customers.

As long as it will be possible I will use old VEPro7 v7.0 version on my server, while using iLok cloud on main computer. This works for me because server holds BBCSO, huge Kontakt libs etc, not VSL.

So thank you for your patience, Paul. My respect to you, but take a look on Google search results. Sometimes you have to be able to stop and see your mistakes. (not your's, but company's).

@ANeeman said:

Oh that's interesting we can only use our iLok cloud from one machine at a time?

So, I'm looking at buying a second computer, soley to run VEPro Server and the PI's, while keeping the first for the DAW and the associated functions (editing, mixing..). I was thinking that I'd be able to do this with the same iLok Cloud account; for instance the all the PI's relegated to the networked machine, and the mixing tools (Waves, etc..) relegated to the main machine. I thought that as long as I don't try to open a second instance on the other machine, I should be ok. But are you saying that this is not the case?

According to the video, it seems I can keep my dongle on 1 computer, and use the cloud with the other computer. At least I don't need to buy a second dongle. But please let me know if I am correctly understanding this.

Thanks in advance

Yes, you can use iLok cloud on one machine and iLok dongle on second machine. It's correct. All my post is about inconvenience.

But we still not talking about big problems - no one will convert your server projects to work with new version.

@ANeeman said:

Yes, you can use iLok cloud on one machine and iLok dongle on second machine. It's correct. All my post is about inconvenience.

But we still not talking about big problems - no one will convert your server projects to work with new version.

That was my next question... so you're saying that Vienna hasn't yet released an updated Server App for iLok that will work seamlessly just as the pre-iLok version worked? I went through that incredible hassle at first, only to reinstall the older version and everything again worked as it had.

Yes, now - after hours of digging and fighting I installed old pre-iLok VEPro versions (7.0.1120) on both machines, but I leave libraries as iLok versions. And I tested - all is working great - updated libraries are loading correctly in updated Synchron Player (1.2.1120) while servers are old (7.0.1120).

Probably VSL will correct all bugs soon, but I'm not ready to be beta tester. I spent two days to do nothing but just testing what works and what doesn't.

And again... "iLok inconveniences *legit* customers", but who cares?! The goal is to prevent hundred pirates to do things while thousands feel inconvenience.

@ANeeman said:

And again... "iLok inconveniences *legit* customers", but who cares?! The goal is to prevent hundred pirates to do things while thousands feel inconvenience.

That's always the case. We've always had to and will probably always have to deal with. Good ole' human nature.

Hi Paul, 

I highly recommend you to add iLOK to be linked into a registered computer. 

This would solve the Cloud session issues as well as the need of buying these iLOK keys in numbers.

Holder of 3 VE Pro 7 licenses and 3 eLicenser KEYs

Br, 

Petri 

Hey Petri,

I've just come across your reply here.

I'm facing the prospect of having to buy x12 iLok dongles.   So, are you saying that it is possible to run my x12 VEPRo7 licenses on my x12 networked Dell servers without the need for buying a load of new iLok dongles?

How do I go about doing this?

Many thanks,

Jonathan

No, Jonathan, Petri wrote that it would be nice if licenses could be bound to a computer as it is with many licenses for plugins.

But now you will need to buy 12 iLok dongles to run your 12 servers. Congratulations, sorry! This is the cost for the move. It will cost you some 650 euros.

But this could be done one server at a time over a long period

@prahja said:

... the need of buying these iLOK keys in numbers.

Long time gone since last reply here. Also Paul is silent 😞

So, Petri, did you buy a bunch of iLok keys?

BTW, every company is going dongle-free, but we here need to buy iLok keys. Is this a future like 10-20 years back?

I have to echo the concerns stated in this post about iLok dongles.

"iLok inconveniences *legit* customers"

This is something that needs to be more fully understood, particularly in the context of the purpose of a software such as VEP which *is meant to be distributed among multiple computers*. It seems that VSL have not done the work to problem solve this adaptation as the new scheme is crippling the main purpose of the software by incurring a hefty tax for running multiple servers. 12x iLok dongles is a mess and makes VEP look *very* unattractive for people running serious systems that need to upgrade into the future. I have been on the fence about using VEP7 in a large upcoming server farm in new studio, but this iLok situation is intolerable, so I will be working with other solutions. 

Even Steinberg found it suitable to go dongle-less while also not requiring an internet connection.

VSL,

Please retrace your steps, admit there were mistakes made and make an effort move forward with an alternative method which does not incur such a large penalty to operate.