Using MIR as a virtual 'ambience mic'

[yulokchan]

Hi, I'm completely new to this concept and was wondering if MIR can serve the purpose of helping me create like a 'ambience/room mic' in a live session and have it blended in the mix for the room tone.

Still waiting for the dongle to come so will demo it for sure. But here are a few thing I was wondering:

It is mentioned that the secondary microphone would be just the room microphone without the direct signal. In this case if I want to create an ambience mic as if there is a performance happening on stage, should I include the direct signals (given that there are actually direct signals happening on the stage) or just the room microphone?

Is natural latency in the room output purely natural? Do I have to take into account phase when playing with mic position like I do in real life?

Can I change the height and angle the mic vertically, like from above aiming towards the floor? This is my usual practice, 3-4 metres up in the air and pointing the mic down towards the musicians, but I find most MIR alternative only offer XYZ and horizontal rotation, but not vertical one.

What's the best settings/ what are some tips in the settings if I want to use MIR with this purpose? Especially the dry/wet slider, the dry directivity etc.

Cheers

[Dietz]

Welcome, and thanks for your interest in MIR Pro!

@Another User said:

What's the best settings/ what are some tips in the settings if I want to use MIR with this purpose? Especially the dry/wet slider, the dry directivity etc.

I would start with the default settings (or maybe re-call one of the so-called "MIRx Presets" I created for all Vienna Instruments) as starting point and adjust things by ear. While MIR Pro "thinks" much like an audio engineer, many users approach it more from an conductor's point-of-view, which is a perfectly valid way to look at it, too.

For "pop/hybrid scoring" music it's always a good idea to lean a bit more towards the dry signal (30/70), while the default "50/50"-settings will work nicely for classical orchestral arrangements. The "Global Dry/Wet Offset" in the Output Panel is a quick way to find out your preferences for the mix at hand.

... don't hesitate to ask if there are open question!

[yulokchan]

Wow thanks for you prompt and detailed reply, Dietz! Definitely just made yourself a sale here, Imma grab my usb stick asap! :) And it seems that MIR 3D is gonna be super exciting!

Just got some clarification to pick your brain on further, if you don't mind.

I am a big fan of the technique of live recording. And if the room has nice enough reverb, I usually, along with all the close mic, put an extra pair of omni condenser microphones up in the air to capture what's happening in the room. That's all the spot mic + a parallel stereo room mic channel, and I slide the room mic into the spot mic mix to give the mix a real sense of space. But if I am not working in a nice place, I tend to get as much isolation as possible, and then add digital reverb afterward. 

And now that MIR is here, and I want to use MIR to replicate my workflow above, using it as that extra pair of microphones, parallel with the close mic signals. It would definitely be a big improvement when compared to using digital reverb when it comes to real sense of space. My clarification needed would be though:

It looks like MIR encodes my dry close mic signals as well. I would be using real recordings with MIR most and I would always feed nicely recorded dry signals to it so I would be looking to having less processing the better.

How big would that MIR ambisonics processing colour the dry signals, if my dry signals is already sounding phenomenon? Like mentioned above, I just need a stereo room mic signal from MIR, to slide into an already good sounding close mic mix, for the real sense of space. So am I better off using MIR 100% wet in parallel with my close mic mix, and I can control the dry wet myself with the amount of MIR wet output I slide into the mix?

And now that the dry are not processed with MIR, is phasing an issue of using it 100% wet, in parallel?

Thanks Dietz in advance so much for your help. :)

[Dietz]

(I inadvertently deleted a carefully worded reply instead of sending it *grrrrr*, so I have to write it again - might happen that it's at least less long-winded now. *sigh*)

@Another User said:

So am I better off using MIR 100% wet in parallel with my close mic mix, and I can control the dry wet myself with the amount of MIR wet output I slide into the mix?

And now that the dry are not processed with MIR, is phasing an issue of using it 100% wet, in parallel?

I want to emphasize again that MIR should normally _not_ be set up in a group or AUX send scheme! It is possible from a technical point of view, but it must be considered as off-label use 😉 - As I wrote in my first answer: MIR Pro is meant to be used as an insert in the mixer track of a single source - either in VE Pro or in your DAW. Since all remnants of the original direct signal components of the IRs have been removed in the implementation of MIR's Venues, there will be no phasing whatsoever when the required amount of the ready dry signal is mixed in.

... please don't take this as "RTFM", but there are a few sections in MIR Pro's Manual that might help, e.g.:

-> https://www.vsl.info/en/manuals/mir-pro/think-mir

-> https://www.vsl.info/en/manuals/mir-pro/creating-new-project

HTH,

[yulokchan]

Thanks so much Dietz, again. I think I now understand.

My initial worry for any colouration to the dry signal came from a video talking about dry directivity and having a 'movable virtual close mic'. Now I think as long as I stay away from the dry directivity button, and have the 'pure' character setting, the dry signal will stay intact.

With the parallel thing, it sounds more like a workflow choice to me and it seems like using ensemble pro 7 is the best way. I will stay in pro tools and experiment once I get my hand on an elicenser.

Thanks heaps! :)

[Dietz]

You're welcome!

The following screenshot is an example for the "misuse" ;-) of MIR Pro as a more conventional reverb engine in an AUX-send-oriented mixing scenario. My setup is based on the MIRx preset for Teldex Berlin and uses the three "General Purpose Ensembles" in global wet-only mode.

The idea is to have a MIR Pro plug-in in each of three stereo AUX-busses of the DAW (doesn't have to be VE Pro, necessarily). You will send AUXes from your individual signal tracks to these busses, according to the depth you want achieve. Of course you will have to take care for all panning-related tasks yourself (also in the AUX sends!) as MIR has no way to do this in a setup like that.

... that way your source signals will remain untouched altogether, which might be necessary under certain circumstances. I wouldn't buy MIR Pro for _only_ that kind of setup, though. 8-) 

[yulokchan]

Cheers Dietz for the demonstration. 

Though I think I will first experiment with having a separate session just for creating that MIR ambience stereo signal (or maybe two, close and far), bouncing the wet output and import it back into my original session as the 'room mic' channel. I just got the key and I will for sure start the demo and try it out. 

And I really appreciate your demonstration and I will also try it your way and see how different it would be. Thanks again. :)

[Dietz]

Sounds like a plan! Don't miss out on the best part, however. MIR's ability of of positioning individual signals in space is really astonishing :-) .

Enjoy MIR Pro!

[yulokchan]

Just wanted to tell you Dietz...

Tried it, loved it, purchased it with the 30% discount as well! Loving the blumlein setup and would love to have a Decca tree setup since it's a pretty much one of the standards for capturing performance on stage.

Vienna and Synchron are having some discount off too but I am leaning more towards eldex and Sage. Any hints whether other rommpacks will get some love, maybe like towards the end of October? ;)

[Dietz]

Thanks for the friendly words,

@Another User said:

Any hints whether other rommpacks will get some love, maybe like towards the end of October? ;)

I have no idea about the finer details of VSL's marketing, sorry. I'm a sound guy ... 😉