Vienna Symphonic Library Forum
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  4. FREE UPDATE: Great Rieger Organ OUT NOW!
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    Intersting instrument for sure. I only don't understand why it's associated with Synchron Stage?

    "The libraries labeled "SYNCHRON" were recorded at our own Synchron Stage Vienna and played by members of the Synchron Stage Orchestra."

    "Libraries labeled "SYNCHRON-ized" contain re-edited samples from our VI Series that were re-edited and optimized for the Vienna Synchron Player."

    "Great Rieger Organ. Legendary instrument at Vienna Konzerthaus"

    Perhaps it's "SYNCHRON-ized" or any third option with all respect.
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    Got confirmation today that I get to keep the Konzerthaus Organ license with the offered crossgrade to Great Rieger Organ, so I will get it.

    If it does not offer a way to turn on key velocity, then I'll probably not use it much, though.

    Vienna Instruments Pro allows to activate key velocity, also for Konzerthaus Organ presets. But that took me quite some time to do.
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    @badibeat said:

    Vienna Instruments Pro allows to activate key velocity

    That was a real help because I could set up what were effectively different combinations for different velocity zones. Maybe with the new combination facility it won't be needed, though.
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    @badibeat said:

    Vienna Instruments Pro allows to activate key velocity
    That was a real help because I could set up what were effectively different combinations for different velocity zones. Maybe with the new combination facility it won't be needed, though.

    Glad to be of help. Konzerthaus Organ was the first instrument I bought vom VSL, and soon after that Vienna Instruments Pro, even before I was sure that it can give me key velocity.

    However, I had to make a custom preset containing each register and change it there, manually. I'd be happy if presets were XML or JSON so I could edit them as text and diff them.
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    @Angelus said:



    The octave and suboctave "couplers" aren't working as I would understand them. They seem to affect all manuals, but they should be per manual and the "unison off" feature should not need both the super- and sub-octave to be set. 

    Oops, yes, this is completely unusable...
  • PaulP
    VSL Team
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    Hi everybody, 

    Thanks for all your input (no matter which wording you choose 😉). 

    Of course we are already working on improvements for the next version of the Vienna Organ Player, so keep it coming!

    Best,
    Paul

    Paul Kopf Product Manager VSL
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    @Paul said:

    ..so keep it coming!

    As you wish 😇

    The next thing I found was related to the sustain controller. OK, it's fair to ask why anyone should need sustain on an organ anyway. The reason is that I don't (yet!) have a pedalboard so I split my master keyboard 3 ways. The bottom octave and a bit is assigned to the Pedalwerk, which I have on MIDI channel 5. I also enabled the sustain pedal on that channel only so that I could at least play pedal points (Orgelpunkt). The problem I have is that all the manuals respond to the channel 5 sustain controller even though they are on different channels.
  • MackerM
    MackerM

    [Edit] Wondering if the new Organ Player is anywhere near to MPE functionality. If so it might help many users understand better and quicker what this Player will, won't, should and shouldn't do.
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    MPE is a valid subject, but perhaps that discussion would be better in a separate thread rather than discussing it here. I would rather concentrate on usability hits (and of course out-and-out bugs here).

    And talking of which, given that I can't just use the player how I want to, I'm having to host several copies of it in my DAW (Cakewalk)...

    So anyway, I finally have things exactly as I want them - I can have combinations that only affect the manuals I want (because each track is dedicated to one manual) and the sustain pedal only works on the Pedalwerk.
  • MackerM
    MackerM

    [Edit] Just looked into the Organ Player somewhat deeper and nope, it's nowhere near MPE functionality; it has its own ways and means, not all of which are immediately obvious or intuitive.
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    @Angelus said:

    So anyway, I finally have things exactly as I want them

    Well, no, not really because I realised I can't use the couplers in this setup without enabling stops in manuals other than the one that the player instance is dedicated to, and that then runs into the whole "combinations only set or clear stops" thing all over again. I was going to write a custom control surface for a Windows tablet that I have to handle the combinations for all the instances, so maybe I can put that between my keyboard and PC to handle the couplers as well. [EDIT] I now have limited coupler capability (so far: Hauptwerk to Pedal, Positiv to Pedal, Positiv to Hauptwerk, Schwellwerk to Hauptwerk and Schwellwerk to Positiv) via a small MIDI utility I wrote 😃

    I found another very small issue, though, which is that there's some ugly "zipper noise" each time I stop the playback of a recording whilst a note is sounding. I don't get this on any of the other 50 or so VSTs that I have, including VI Pro. It happens even if all channel FX and IR reverb are disabled.
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    About the no-sound Positiv:

    This is strange. As you can see from the standalone, if you have set channel 2 to Positiv, you should get sound from it, when you play a channel 2 note on message. However, there are several things that could be worth checking in your setup:

    - If you are using multiple instances and you change your MIDI input settings in one of them, the other instances won't have those settings until you restart your host. We actually need to make that clearer in the settings.

    - This is someting I ran into myself (In my case it was Logic Pro): When the MIDI channel you set up in your DAW is say channel 3 but you play your keyboard from channel 2, the host will only forward channel 3. So please double check if the player actually receives channel 2 messages. The way you could double check which chanel the player actually receives (I admit, it's clunky):

    1. Set all your Werks to different channel inputs

    2. Solo the track you have the Positiv on. Now enable/disable a stop on every Werk. The note you Werk you will hear corresponds to the MIDI input the player receives.

    - The fact that the keyboard lights up isn't really surprising: It lights up no matter which note ons it gets... And when you play it it actually fires note ons for all channels

    I hope this helps! If not, please contact our support in that regard.
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    @badibeat said:

    Vienna Instruments Pro allows to activate key velocity
    That was a real help because I could set up what were effectively different combinations for different velocity zones. Maybe with the new combination facility it won't be needed, though.

    Glad to be of help. Konzerthaus Organ was the first instrument I bought vom VSL, and soon after that Vienna Instruments Pro, even before I was sure that it can give me key velocity.

    However, I had to make a custom preset containing each register and change it there, manually. I'd be happy if presets were XML or JSON so I could edit them as text and diff them.

    I am not entirely sure but I think the Vienna Organ Player already features a way of achieving that.

    Please watch the attached video for more info

    ViennaU0020OrganU0020PlayerU0020-U0020Velocities.mov-1696492737327-xahbx.mov
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    @Another User said:

    Please watch the attached video for more info

    Ahh - so VO can effectively have up to 12 velocity zones!
  • MackerM
    MackerM

    I was feeling somewhat too limited by the Hammond Organ-style registration preset keys and the Banks matrix keys. Yes there can be a lot of presets as it stands, but - call me insatiable - I wanted even more leeway.

    So I fixed that - in Logic with VEP7.

    At any moment while playing, I'm now able to select any one of 16 complete Great Rieger Organs, each having its own registration presets and responding on its normal keyswitches accordingly, and each can respond to all 5 MIDI channels appropriately. To do this I built a simple MIDI-controlled instrument-chooser in Logic's Environment.

    I suppose I could have put all 16 organs in Logic, but for convenience I've popped them into one VEP7 instance and used 16 cloned AU3 VEP client plugins in Logic - all clones connected to the one VEP instance, each routing to a different VEP port.

    The "organ chooser" I built in the Environment is dead simple. Note Ons from multiple MIDI keyboards on any channel are routed via a MIDI-controlled Cable Switcher to one of the 16 VEP client plugin clones, one clone for each organ on its own VEP port. And as old hands with the Environment will know, the important trick with cable-switching MIDI notes is to prevent hanging notes; so I've used the old method of sending all Note Offs to all instruments all the time. Job done. Also, any incoming MIDI CCs on any channel are routed along with Note ons to the one organ selected by the Cable Switcher.

    A pic of my simple organ-chooser mechanism in the Environment is attached below. A Transformer is used to split Note-Offs from Note Ons, using the "Condition splitter (true -> top cable)" Mode, the Condition being Status = Note, and Velocity = 0. Each of the 16 output Monitors is cabled to one of the 16 Instrument Strip clones that have one AU3 VEP plugin inserted for all 16 clones; each clone is set to All MIDI channels and its own port number.

    My old but still not too shabby 4.2 GHz 7700K CPU is coping at around 45% usage. I guess I could knock that usage down a bit by not using the factory-loaded audio fx plugins in every individual organ. [Edit: it's around 23% straight after launch but then some while later after some varied use, for some unknown reason it roughly doubles CPU usage suddenly and stays there].

    The number of preset registrations I can set up and use with great ease now is just bonkers and I'm loving it!

    Image
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    "I am not entirely sure but I think the Vienna Organ Player already features a way of achieving that.

    Please watch the attached video for more info"

    I am so glad you included this!

    I'm all for historical realism, but I am sure many organists and composers would have loved organs to be velocity-sensitive, so the ability to now add that with a computer interface is wonderful. I made a matrix to do the same with the VSL harpsichord :-)

    AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 8-Core 3.59Mhz Processor, 64 GB RAM, Windows 10.0.19045, Cubase 10.5.20, Sibelius 7, VEP 5.4.16181, VIP 2.4.16399, Symphonic Cube, MIR Rooms 1-5, Suite, Choir, Organ, Imperial, Solo Voices, Dimension Strings, Historic Winds, World Winds
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    @Pyre said:

    I'm all for historical realism, but I am sure many organists and composers would have loved organs to be velocity-sensitive, so the ability to now add that with a computer interface is wonderful.

    I like sounds and techniques to be authentic too but there comes a point where it would just be silly to ignore the capabilities we have now. I only have the one keyboard and so, for example, I use velocity-switching to effectively layer different manuals.
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    How would I record registration changes? That is, while I'm playing, I add/remove stops. Might those not be recorded midi messages so when I play back it duplicates EVERYTHING I did while playing?
  • PaulP
    VSL Team
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    Hi, 

    @wwzeitler said:

    How would I record registration changes? That is, while I'm playing, I add/remove stops. Might those not be recorded midi messages so when I play back it duplicates EVERYTHING I did while playing?

    You can automate those changes when you are in latch mode, recording the changes you make in the GUI of your plug-in. 

     

    EDIT: This is also a very good example for a feature you find in the Vienna Organ Player => Settings => Interface, where you can deactivate the auto-saving of combinations (see screenshot). 

    Best, 
    Paul

    Paul Kopf Product Manager VSL
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    This feature looks great for auto-capturing your registration at the beginning of the piece. But what about adding/removing stops during the piece? (A very common thing for organists to do!)