Hi,
I've read all 14 pages of the thread. My question for Vienna, is how is this benefitting us? iLok gets new clients and spike in high profit USB keys, Vienna gets a better authorization service than they had, and a spike in sales for "legacy" license upgrades.
So what do we get?
So far I'm looking at $600 for 6x new iloks (or risking my computer security online) and 6x upgrades from "legacy" VEP 5/6. And to salt the wound, the Vi Pro Player I paid hundreds of dollars to buy and upgrade, is now free. And my MIR Pro and 6 Room packs won't work with iLok yet. VEP 6 was out for about a year or so before 7 was released, that's really pushing the noting of "legacy".
So this transition is costing over 600$, and nullified several hundred or prior purchases.
Veinna and iLok get a cash grab. What's in it for us? No vouchers? Not even a free sample set? Nothing?
I get why its good from a business perspective, but am failing to see any benefits for the people who fund the operations, the customer.
Can someone please tell me what benefits we gain from this transition. Vienna surely has considered us, they gave always had good products and services. What am I missing?
It seems to me like Vienna is using the customers to fund the transition they had to make due to Steinberg switching things up. Ok, but we get nothing for our money but the ability to use products we already bought? It's not even a physical product. Vienna can easily supply upgrades to iLok compatible VEP at no cost to them. They surely have recouped costs of development for VEP 7. With little effort they could generate new keys and deposit them.
I don't mind a fair price for a fair product, as evidenced by the thousands I spent with Vienna, but this just doesn't sit right with me.
What's in it for us?
Thanks.
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Hi Kmetal,
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.
Besides the fact that your existing setup will keep on working just like it is, license management is much more convenient with iLok, which will also allow us a few options in the future (give it just a little time to see what we have in store).
Not HAVING to use a physical key is a huge game changer for many musicians out there! So the iLok cloud, while it is not the perfect solution for everybody, is quite a change there.
Learn more about your advantages with iLok right here.
I'd like to fact-check a few of your statements:
1) "So far I'm looking at $600 for 6x new iloks"
Last time I checked the price was around $50 for an iLok key.
2) "And to salt the wound, the Vi Pro Player I paid hundreds of dollars to buy and upgrade, is now free."
This move makes many users happy and it was high on time to catch up there. No intention to cause any pain. You paid around $115 for 3 licenses in 2017 (€108), I checked.
3) "And my MIR Pro and 6 Room packs won't work with iLok yet."
That must be a misunderstanding. The situation with MIR Pro is special, but MIR Pro and all RoomPacks work just fine in VE Pro 7. I'm explaining this special situation here.
4) "VEP 6 was out for about a year or so before 7 was released, that's really pushing the noting of "legacy"".
I'll have to correct that as well... VE Pro 6 was introduced in August 2016 and we have pushed development with VE Pro 7 immensely in the coming years until we were ready to introduce VE Pro 7 with a single license concept in May 2019.
Best,
Paul
Paul Kopf Product Manager VSL -
Paul,
My account is still currently waiting to be i-Lok transfer approved (still waiting to board the plane, as it were). If I purchase something, does that allow my account to begin transferring licenses?
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Hi stuenn,
Thanks for posting, and sorry to see you disappointed.
Machine-based licensing simply doesn't offer enough protection. There's nothing else to it.
With a highly demanding production process like ours, we simply cannot afford to be hacked.
I see that you have purchased in our webshop, so feel free to return your license within 14 days.
We hate to see you go, but it would be even worse to see you so unhappy and upset.
Best,
PaulPaul,
Thank you for the offer to return the license. But after playing the Steinway for a couple of days now I will NEVER do this. The sound simply right away blowed me away. I was looking very, very long for a piano sound like this. All the different microphones leave nothing to be desired! A tool that inevitably makes you creative.
Stefan
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Hi Kmetal, Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. Besides the fact that your existing setup will keep on working just like it is, license management is much more convenient with iLok, which will also allow us a few options in the future (give it just a little time to see what we have in store). Not HAVING to use a physical key is a huge game changer for many musicians out there! So the iLok cloud, while it is not the perfect solution for everybody, is quite a change there. Learn more about your [url=
Hi Paul, glad you took the time to reply, just want to clarify. I'm familiar with iLok, being a user since 2006. When I got into Vienna, I was a bit annoyed to be using yet another dongle. So in that sense the migration is long over due 😊 1). The $600 I started included the 6x VEP licenses and 6x iloks, $300 + $300 (presuming the vep is purchased at current sale price) my original statement was factual. - the existing setup will work as is, but for an undetermined amount of time. There is no given time frame for how long Steinberg server's will be up, or how long I'll be able to use/replace an elicenser/Vienna key. The lack of support in an event of PC or single failure is the issue, and I think a rational concern. - there is also the notion that licenses can't be transferred after a certain time from Steinberg to iLok, which is a strong incentive (push?) To transition sooner than later. - upgrades aren't necessary, sure, but if the primary benefit to customers is the iLok cloud, then actually upgrades are necessary, since every edition current VEP is not supported. - the upgrades are necessary purely because if one needs reliable operation, they have to. We are being asked to pay for Veinna's inability to make the licenses compatible. 2) right I'm happy others are happy that they're getting what was a premium product, for free. For people like me it's of zero added benefit, and feels like a bit of wasted money. And I stand corrected, the I never upgraded the VEP pro player, so it's was "a little over $100", not "hundreds of dollars'". 3) what am I misunderstanding? From the Veinna Website: "Please note that currently only Vienna MIR Pro that’s integrated with Vienna Ensemble Pro 7 can be authorized through iLok. The plug-in version of MIR (i.e., the one that you can instantiate directly in your DAW) is currently not iLok compatible and needs a ViennaKey/USB eLicenser plugged into the computer you’re using it on." - correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears I was factual saying my MIR Pro doesn't work with iLok yet. 4) ok "so a year or so" is corrected to "a couple years or so". Not a major disparity in our semantics. - judging by this release schedule then VEP 8 isn't too far away. Which means the $300 I spend to for the privilege of using iLok, will keep me current for a relatively short period. And I'll again be charged for an upgrade. You have better insight on that than I do, so if you can make my assumption more correct, please do. --- As an aside, when I bought the Vienna Suite which includes a VEP license, for €1,091 (somewhere around $1200 give or take), in Dec 2020 ie a little over a year ago, not only did it [b]not [/b]say ahead of time it was only a single license, Vienna never told me that owners of VEP7 wouldn't get a VEP 7 license included. This was all disclosed post taking payment. Not a word before hand. So in addition to the disappointment back then, it is now relavant since having that license could save me $50. It was far less important to upgrade when VEP 5/6 was actively supported. --- So you can certainly see where this stuff is adding up to some disatisfaction. iLok/bro upgrade fees, No Mir Pro plugin, lack of full disclosure on a previous product omission from bundle. Unknown deadline to transfer my licences. Lack of known end of life for VEP "legacy" editions. Ive got no doubt you've got some cool stuff in store, but at present it feels very "company centric" not customer centric. I found your upgrade price from the older Veinna Special edition, to Synchronized Special edition very reasonable. And I upgraded even tho it was not necessary. I think a similar ethos should be applied to VEP users. I think we are being asked to pay for something that should really be free, and certainly, if not free, at a discount rate that's much higher than the present one. If a larger discount can't be given, then at least some vouchers towards future purchases could be inckuded. There is nothing about this current state that feels like anything but customers getting taken advantage of. This all feels very "Avid-like' to me, and I know Veinna is better than that. At least they always were. Thanks. -Kyle
with iLok[/url] right here. I'd like to fact-check a few of your statements: 1) "So far I'm looking at $600 for 6x new iloks" Last time I checked the price was around $50 for an iLok key. 2) "And to salt the wound, the Vi Pro Player I paid hundreds of dollars to buy and upgrade, is now free." This move makes many users happy and it was high on time to catch up there. No intention to cause any pain. You paid around $115 for 3 licenses in 2017 (€108), I checked. 3) "And my MIR Pro and 6 Room packs won't work with iLok yet." That must be a misunderstanding. The situation with MIR Pro is special, but MIR Pro and all RoomPacks work just fine in VE Pro 7.I'm [url=
this special situation here[/url]. 4) "VEP 6 was out for about a year or so before 7 was released, that's really pushing the noting of "legacy"". I'll have to correct that as well... VE Pro 6 was [url=
in August 2016[/url]and we have pushed development with VE Pro 7 immensely in the coming years until we were ready to introduce [url=
Pro 7 with a single license concept in May 2019[/url]. Best,Paul
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Hi,
Yes, a purchase will unlock your account to switch to iLok.
Best,
PaulGot it, thanks! Another question for you: once the licenses are switched to iLok and the new sample data is downloaded, will we have to re-do any custom presets (in either VI Pro or Synchron Player) due to the new sample data or will they be able to remain intact?
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Hi all,
Download and installation went well and smooth. However opening my template doesn't work. It takes a lot of time for some instruments and eventually hangs forever on another one. I have tried different scenarios :
- With elicenser+ilok plugged and all sample paths properly defined, the template never opens. It hangs with no response from VE Pro at some point (no disk, cpu or internet activity)
- With elicenser+ilok plugged and no sample paths defined (to bypass the load and go faster), I am able to open the VE Pro session and save it. I disconnect elicenser, reboot my system, reassign sample paths. The session is not loading, same issue as the previous scenario. If I remove the sample paths, it opens, and I can see a CPU increase of around +10% compared to my a elicenser configuration.
What can make VE Pro to hang that way ? What is it doing in the background, or checking, or converting ?
I am confused because I am using VE Pro with many instances and all instruments have custom presets. Any impact ? I am also having around 200 Track Presets defined in Cubase, pointing to VE Pro (decoupled) for each instrument with custom presets. Am I supposed to load all Track presets one by one with elicenser plugged, do something like resaving Track Presets, custom presets in Synchron player... ? Seems like if I don't resave the Track Presets with elicenser plugged, I get an 'invalid project' in VEP and elicenser error message. So would be great to know what to do in details since it is a large scale and time consuming activity and I have already lost 2 days and a night on that :)
FYI - I raised a ticket with my full template in VE Pro + Cubase 12 project.
Thanks a lot in advance,
Cyril
Edit - I have just tried to rebuild my template from scratch (elicenser+ilok plugged). I am adding my Cubase Track Presets one by one to build my template. VEP hangs at around instance 40, my existing template works with 112 instances with no issue. There is clearly an issue in the way VEP manages/converts the presets (or anyone other thing influencing the load - but it always hangs at different places with different instance)
Edit 2 - I have rebuilt one third of my template (around 40 instances), elicenser unplugged, only ilok. I am getting up to 40% usage for one single instance in VEPro, overall 50% of the CPU (see screenshot : https://ibb.co/YBWyCsb). If I load the same 40 tracks in Cubase directly and Synchron Player, I get 10% of CPU usage (see here : https://ibb.co/nPJMLQJ). With only Track Presets with non VSL instruments, the overall CPU usage is as high. I give up... there is something I have no control on, VEP seems to be the bottleneck is all scenarios... Help !
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Hi UDun8
If your computer is NOT connected to the internet, you'll need the eLicenser key with your licenses connected to convert your projects. Once they are saved with your iLok software, this will be fine.
If you're online, this is happening automagically.
Could this be the culprit?
You can and should contact us directly with any specific questions, best with a detailed description of the troubles you are experiencing, steps on how to reproduce them and your projects included.
The better we can reproduce, the faster the fix!
Best,
Paul
Paul Kopf Product Manager VSL -
Thanks Paul. When the elicenser is not plugged in and I am connected to the internet, I get an invalid project error in VEP + elicenser error (see here : https://ibb.co/qF0MTqc ). With elicenser plugged and internet, it took 3h30 to open it in VEP. When saved and elicenser removed, the same slowness is happening. It is hanging forever. With NO internet and NO elicenser, VEP opens the template and hangs in the middle. I don't get what roles elicenser, ilok and internet play and when in the entire process. I really suspect that this version of VEP has problem managing a big number of instances (>40) or there is a time out somewhere, a conversion... I don't know what, but it was working before.
But this is still not clear to me if I am supposed to do any manual action to resave Cubase Track Presets pointing to VEP, as well as custom presets in Synchron Player alone. VEP sessions fine I can resave but what about other components pointing to VEP or used within VEP ?
How do I know if I have fully moved to ilok with no background conversion happening ? Down the road I don't want to have a component causing me an issue. This is very confusing, we are supposed to move to a dongle free model and I am lost with 2 keys (elicenser and ilok) not knowing which role they play in the process and if I am fully moved to ilok or dependent on the internet for some endless conversion.
Ticket raised yesterday with all details and project files.
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One small question concerning other changes introduced at the same time but related to moving licenses across to ilok:
In introductory material I recall reading that single-instrument standard VI libraries are to be discontinued. I have a few of these. Does it mean I have to pay an upgrade fee (for the full library) to get the license moved to ilok?
Thanks if you can enlighten me, just to help working out a rough cost.
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I want to congratulate VSL on what proved for me to be a fairly easy, successful transition from eLicenser to iLok. It was a two-day project because of my provider's slow internet speeds but also because I wanted to babysit the parceling out of installations to particular SSD's, so I did no overnight fire-and-forget downloads.
Great job by VSL, and I like the Vienna Assistant.
Synchron - Woods, Brass, Perc I, Str Pro, Elite Str, Duality Str & Sordino, Prime Studio - Woods, Perc, Solo Str, Ch Str, Orch Str, App Str, Harps, Choir Studio Dim - Brass, Strings VE Pro, MIR Pro 3D, Vienna Suite Pro Cubase 14, Studio One 6, Dorico 5 -
I just got my transition email today. Will have several days of downloading to do, but so far its going very smoothly and I have to say I'm quite impressed with the Vienna Assistant...this will be a much much nicer way to keep on top of updates and download VSL products. It also helps me to understand what I don't own, which I'm not sure is good for me, hahaha, but anyway, just want to say, nicely done....this is a very thorough changeover, well done VSL.
I'm also very happy to read that iLok will no longer require the license protection plan...this is a very very welcome change also.
Well done VSL.
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I don't recall Vienna requiring a license protection plan for the Vienna Key - that was always optional. And iLok never required a license protection plan. The ZDT on iLok is completely optional as well but if you value your investment in software it's the cheapest insurance you'll ever buy at $30 US per year. I have 2 iLoks and each has their own ZDT coverage.I just got my transition email today. Will have several days of downloading to do, but so far its going very smoothly and I have to say I'm quite impressed with the Vienna Assistant...this will be a much much nicer way to keep on top of updates and download VSL products. It also helps me to understand what I don't own, which I'm not sure is good for me, hahaha, but anyway, just want to say, nicely done....this is a very thorough changeover, well done VSL.
I'm also very happy to read that iLok will no longer require the license protection plan...this is a very very welcome change also.
Well done VSL.
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Just got my first update notification in Vienna Assistant. Really appreciate not having to check MyDownloads to find out if there are any updates.
Synchron - Woods, Brass, Perc I, Str Pro, Elite Str, Duality Str & Sordino, Prime Studio - Woods, Perc, Solo Str, Ch Str, Orch Str, App Str, Harps, Choir Studio Dim - Brass, Strings VE Pro, MIR Pro 3D, Vienna Suite Pro Cubase 14, Studio One 6, Dorico 5 -
Hi,
That shouldn't be the case, transition should be automatic.
Please check that VI Pro shows up in Logic's Plug-in Manager (maybe you need to validate it manually).If that's not the case: Can you please send us your project, so we can look into it? support@vsl.co.at
Best,
PaulI downloaded the new updates and I'm happy to say the transitions are now automatic. Thanks!
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Hi everybody,
Thanks for the great feedback!
A new version of the Vienna Assistant is now available (restart it for automatic updates), with silent installation of all software products (and updates here as well).
Remember: We're just getting started!
Best,
Paul
Paul Kopf Product Manager VSL -
Is silent install supposed to be an option? If it is I don't see it. And I don't see an 'update all' selection - is there supposed to be one? Or do I just click on download/install for one and everything gets updated?Hi everybody,
Thanks for the great feedback!
A new version of the Vienna Assistant is now available (restart it for automatic updates), with silent installation of all software products (and updates here as well).
Remember: We're just getting started!
Best,
Pauledit for additional:
This new Assistant version doesn't seem to be working right. I click on update and it starts downloading and then just sits there seemingly doing nothing. When I click on the OSX Dock I see an 'application not responding'.
