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  • VI vs. SYNCHRON-ized

    Hi all-

    I've read a bunch of threads on this topic and I understand the core differences between the VI and Synchronized libraries.  But I can't seem to find out what's driving the price differences between some of the products across the two offerings that apparently have the same samples and articulations.  These price differences make me think that I'm not comparing apples to apples when trying to chose between the product families (aside from the upgraded player and reverb options).

    For example, the Synchronized Woodwinds page says that the product incorporates VI Woodwinds I and II, and sells for 345 euros.  Great.  So I would think that the Synchronized version, all things being equal, would be slightly more expensive than the VI version of the same, given that Synchronized comes with a new player and other reverb options.  However if I go over to the VI page, it lists full VI Woodwinds I and II for a combined price 840 euros (current sale price aside), which is way more expensive than the Synchronized counterpart!  Why would VI (the older technology), sell for such a premium over of the newer Synchronized version?  What am I missing? 

    Is it that I should be comparing VI Woodwinds I and II standard libraries (priced at 320 euros) to the Synchronized Woodwind library (priced at 345 euros)? Or is that VSL is trying to signal, with pricing, to new users like me that we should forgo the old and more expensive VI versions and jump into the new products, given that, all samples remaining the same, the new version offers additional features for a cheaper price (less than half the cost of the old version!)?

    Sorry, I'm a CFO by day (composer by night), so maybe I'm over-analyzing the numbers, but I'm trying to understand what VSL is trying to signal to us about their future product development with their pricing model before I go "all-in" and make a significant investment in their libraries.  If Synchronized Woodwinds truly uses the same samples and articulations as VI Woodwinds I and II, as mentioned on the website, but yet VI is selling for more than twice the cost, it sounds like VSL is simply discouraging new users from purchasing their older VI product.  I just want to be sure!

    BTW, I have the same questions around Synchronized Solo String pricing vs. VI Solo Strings I and II.  I believe the website indicates that the products use the same samples.  If so, with VI's higher price, there would be no reason for anyone to invest in VI at all, right? 

    FWIW, I did purchase another vendor's woodwinds library after getting frustrated by VSL's site.  Sad because I would much prefer to have just 1 go-to library and love the sounds of VSL (It's probably the only company that I think I might actually be able to use for all of my orchestral instruments ).  Lack of a development plan, especially given the large investment required, makes me a little skittish.  But given the current sale on VI instruments, I may reconsider if I can figure all of this stuff out and be confident in my purchase.  With the standard pricing model, why would anyone purchase VI instruments?

    Am I thinking about this right?  Am I comparing the two offerings the right way?  Is there a comprehensive spreadsheet or table somewhere that lists all VSL products by instrument and articulation across the various Synchron, Synchronized, and VI offerings?  That would be HUGE!  I would imagine that this would only take VSL a few hours or maybe a day to put together, but would be a huge win based on the similar feedback I've read on these forums.  It's so simple that if this doesn't exist, it makes me think there's a hidden motive as to why it doesn't - which gives me cold feet about investing one product or another.  Again, maybe I'm thinking too much like a finance guy ;-).  I want to jump in but...cold feet!

    Any advice is much appreciated!

    Thanks!


  • Hi!

    We are curently working on improving the situation and make comparisons easier.

    Regarding the libraries you mentioned:

    SYNCHRON-ized Solo Strings contain the same instruments as VI Solo Strings I + Solo Violin 2 + Solo Cello 2. The content of the Solo Strings II library is not included.

    SYNCHRON-ized Woodwinds: It contains a collection of the most commonly used instruments from Woodwinds I + II, but far from all of them.

    Also keep in mind that you can always upgrade from the VI instruments to the SYNCHRON-ized variants of these libraries. You can see your personal upgrade discount on the product page as soon as you own these, or make sure you are logged in on the page and add multiple libraries to the basket, to see the discount there.

    My suggestion: With the curtrent sale you can't go wrong with the VI instruments, especially when you can upgrade these at any point in future :)

    Best, Ben


    Ben@VSL | IT & Product Specialist
  • Ben, I don't expect you can ask to this question, but I'll ask all the same! I wonder why the upgrade of Appassionata Strings VI --> SYzd is so much more expensive than other collections. I know they are more player, but it's only five sections! :)

    Paolo


  • Sorry, I have no idea. This was released before I started at VSL...


    Ben@VSL | IT & Product Specialist
  • Thanks for the quick response Ben!  You confirmed my thinking on this.  So just to be clear (for others with the same question):

    --The Synchronized Woodwinds standalone product is an incomplete or stripped down version of the VI Woodwinds bundle.  The statement on the Synchronized Woodwinds page: "Starting with the raw, unprocessed original Silent Stage recordings for the VI Collections Woodwinds I & II, the team worked to increase both their flexibility and ease-of-use for a quick and creative work-flow", means that some samples and articulations were bought over, but others were discarded from the VI version.  As a result, Synchronized Woodwinds are offered at a lower price point than their VI counterparts.

    --Likewise, the Synchronized Solo Strings standalone product is an incomplete version or stripped down version the VI Solo Strings Bundle.  Among possible other exclusions, the Synchronized version excludes VI Solo Strings II.  As a result of these exclusions, Synchronized Solo Strings is offered at a lower price point than the VI bundle.

    So it sounds like VI is currently the "platinum" offering from VSL with all other offerings serving slightly different market needs (perhaps folks who prefer a reverb option, an updated player, or who don't need the immense amount of samples and articulations included in the VI libraries) and Synchron and Syncrhozied fall somewhere between the SE offerings on the lower end and VI offerings on the luxury end.  Is that a good read on it?

    If this is true, then a composer can't go wrong by investing in VI products (price not being a consideration), but there may be other more targeted and specialized products, like the SE, Synchron and Synchronized lines that may be a better fit for a given situation or person. 

    Whew, I feel like I was back in grad school doing a product positioning case study ;-).   I hope I got it, but let me know if I missed it.


  • The SYNCHRON-ized Solo Strings do not miss any samples, in fact they add new ones. They simply do not include the content Solo Strings II (which are con sordino articulations).

    The SYNCHRON-ized Woodwinds will also see an update with added articulations, but there are some instruments not included that are available in the Woodwinds I and II bundle.

    In general the SYNCHRON-ized version is the one we encourage people to use, if the requiered instrument is already available as such. The samples are polished and reworked to take advantage of our new and advanced sample player, the Synchron Player.
    This said, the VI instruments are by no means bad - they are not as straight forward to use compared to the SYNCHRON-ized ones.
    But with the current deal and the possibilities to upgrade to the SYNCHRON-ized libraries later I would not miss out on these!


    Ben@VSL | IT & Product Specialist
  • It's worth noting that you can turn off the impulse responses in the SYN-zed products and use them completely dry if you need to.  


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    @bbelius said:

    The SYNCHRON-ized Solo Strings do not miss any samples, in fact they add new ones. They simply do not include the content Solo Strings II (which are con sordino articulations).

    The SYNCHRON-ized Woodwinds will also see an update with added articulations, but there are some instruments not included that are available in the Woodwinds I and II bundle.

    In general the SYNCHRON-ized version is the one we encourage people to use, if the requiered instrument is already available as such. The samples are polished and reworked to take advantage of our new and advanced sample player, the Synchron Player.
    This said, the VI instruments are by no means bad - they are not as straight forward to use compared to the SYNCHRON-ized ones.
    But with the current deal and the possibilities to upgrade to the SYNCHRON-ized libraries later I would not miss out on these!

     

     I realized I should not comment.  Probably a misunderstanding on my part. 


  • Hi William, 

    How's it going?

    We are all using both platforms here, no worries. 

    Our Vienna Instruments Collections and the VI / Pro player are a very powerful combination, and we are doing our best to make our Synchron Player an even more comfortable and modern sample player. 

    At the same time, we are adapting all VI Samples to fit the new Synchron Player (which is A LOT of work), sometimes even re-mastering and re-editing from scratch (like with our SYNCHRON-ized Chamber Strings). 

    We are not trashing anything, and our VI Collection are great for what they are. 

    The Synchron Series simply follows an adapted philosophy, and the famous "out-of-the-box" effect makes it easier to get going right away. Which makes it our go-to suggestion for new users. 

    All the best, 
    Paul


    Paul Kopf Product Manager VSL
  • Sorry, I realized it is not really appropriate for me to comment.  I should shut the hell up and not create more work for a moderator.  


  • It appears the initial premise is out of kilter. The choice involved in buying either VI or Synch is not like buying a house to live in; there's no serious difficulty in buying, and using both together if desired, libraries of either kind, is there? (Unless of course if someone bought the Cube but was later stricken with a really bad case of the grass looks greener on the other side.) Are you confusing orchestral libraries with real estate, 154284? And technically, nothing's going to "literally blow up" by combining the two types in a DAW or VE Pro. (Oh BTW, have we seen you here before under a different handle, 154284? Your posting style seems very familiar.)

    The most serious worry for VI users, expressed some while ago, was whether or not VSL would continue supporting VI. I for one believe the worry has been firmly and adequately addressed by VSL's subsequent assurances that VI libraries are not about to wither on the vine. I'm a happy user of both, and if I see a VI library I fancy in a sale I'll not hesitate to buy it (cash flow permitting, lol).

    So other than trying to stir up dissatisfaction with VSL's pricing policies, I'm not seeing (on the surface) what this thread starter was really aiming at.


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    @Macker said:

    there's no serious difficulty in buying, and using both together if desired, libraries of either kind

    I'm experimenting in blending VI (+MIR), Synchronized and Synchron instruments, and I'm admired at how VSL was able to make them coexist in the same space with no problem at all. You can hear where they are placed in the same room, even if they come from different series.

    Paolo


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    @154284 said:

    FWIW, I did purchase another vendor's woodwinds library after getting frustrated by VSL's site.  Sad because I would much prefer to have just 1 go-to library and love the sounds of VSL (It's probably the only company that I think I might actually be able to use for all of my orchestral instruments ).  Lack of a development plan, especially given the large investment required, makes me a little skittish.  But given the current sale on VI instruments, I may reconsider if I can figure all of this stuff out and be confident in my purchase.  With the standard pricing model, why would anyone purchase VI instruments?

    For three reasons:

    1. There are a lot of things available in the VI line that aren't available in the Synchron or SYN-zed line.  And I mean a lot.  Solo Strings con sordino is just the tip of the iceberg. This will probably change in the future, but given the vast selection of deeply sampled orchestral instruments VSL offers, it won't happen soon.  Compare the articulations on offer between some of the SYN-zed libraries and some of the VI libraries (the Woodwinds or Chamber strings, for example) and you'll see what I mean.
    2. They are forwards-compatible with SYN-zed and Synchron products if you use MirX Synchron or MIR Pro with the Synchron Stage roompack.  Plop them in the same room, tweak the settings to your liking, and boom: it might as well be as if all the libraries were released at the same time.
    3. Synchron products are in-situ and thus can't have the ambience removed.  VI products, on the other hand, can be applied to any spatial situation you want.  Note: you can actually remove the ambience in SYN-zed (not Synchron, but Synchron-ized) products and use them just like VI libraries. 

    VSL recently released MirX Synchron specifically because they haven't abandoned support for the line.  They may not develop any new sample libraries via the Silent Stage (I don't actually know if this is true, I'm just assuming based on the trajectory of the last year or so), but it's clear they are tending to their legacy and making sure VI products are as forward compatible as possible with their new direction.

    Oh, a fourth reason:

    Layering.  Judicious mixture of diff. kinds of string libraries (as one example) can yield very flexible and pleasing results.

    Those are my scattered thoughts.  Hope that helps!

    - Sam


  • Thanks @Paul and @bbelius (and @SeventhSam, and @PaoloT)!  Your insights were very helpful.  Kids, wife, mortgage, etc.  If I were younger with fewer responsibilities I'd buy the whole lot, lol!  But like I said, I'm sold on VSL being my main sample-based library.  I'm just trying to navigate the many choices and options.  So thanks to each of you for the advice.


  • Hi, 

    You're very welcome! It is a broad spectrum to navigate.

    Specific questions will be easier to answer, so don't be shy!

    Best,
    Paul


    Paul Kopf Product Manager VSL
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    Hello Paolo

    When you put everything on a MIR stage, do you have tracks of other instrument than VSL one's, synth,  singers .... ?

    Do you have any any recommendations ? delay between instruments ? .... ?

    Do you place them on the stage as an audio track thru the VE PRO ?

    Does Mir know it is a Synchron instrument and remove the reverb ?

    Thanks in advance for your lights

    Best

    Cyril

    @PaoloT said:

    I'm experimenting in blending VI (+MIR), Synchronized and Synchron instruments, and I'm admired at how VSL was able to make them coexist in the same space with no problem at all. You can hear where they are placed in the same room, even if they come from different series.

    Paolo


    MacBook Pro M3 MAX 128 GB 8TB - 2 x 48" - 1 x 27" screen --- Logic Pro --- Mir Pro 3D Dolby Atmos --- Most of the VI libs, a few Synch... libs --- Quite a few Kontakt libs --- CS80 fanatic