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  • Why not crowd-fund/source the Dorico 3.5 Expression Maps?

    Dear VSL Friends - 

    Could you estimate the FTE hours required to make Dorico 3.5 maps for key instruments where it matters 'most', i.e., where verisimilitude most requires the ability to carefully trigger from numerous articulations?  

    (FTE=Full Time Equivalent).  

    Maybe you could organize a distributed, paid effort for this talented community to get paid to contribute high-quality maps?  Crowd-source it, essentially.  Already there is an effort underway (thanks to many talented, generous people) but perhaps some leadership/technical guidance from VSL could make it even better, get it done faster, and save your team from the distraction when you could be making new libraries instead?  

     

    Here's how it would work:  Folks donate (I will personally kick in $1,000 for starters) to a 'goal' (specific goal, such as a specific instrument?  or to a 'general fund'?)  Tasks are put up on 'Upwork' by VSL (say, 'EM's for Synchron Violins, the full instrument) with a 'prize' for completion, and estimated FTE-hours to get it done, based on your experience.  Someone in the community agrees to do it right, vetted by VSL, but paid for by donations.  They are awarded the contract (people could collaborate, too, Upwork supports this).  When they finish, you trigger the milestone and they get paid.  Folks in the community who are good at this could also bid to complete the project for a given amount.  Again, when the maps are made to VSL's/the community's satisfaction, VSL (who controls the Upwork account) triggers the milestone, and the community member gets paid. 

    What do you think?  I will put (some of) my money where my mouth is.  Anyone else?

    All the best, 

    Eric


  • Hello

    Andy is THE MAN for Expression Maps but apparently he does not like Dorico.

    As Andy has done all the Expression Maps for Cubase, it should not take him too much time to convert them to Dorico

    Maybe VSL has not Dorico ? 

    There are some expression Maps on Dorico's forum

    I have tried to make a deal with VSL, the answer is : you do it for free !


    MacBook Pro M3 MAX 128 GB 8TB - 2 x 48" screen --- Logic Pro --- Mir Pro 3D --- Most of the VI libs, a few Synch... libs --- Quite a few Kontakt libs --- CS80 fanatic
  • Hello Eric and Cyril!

    Dorico Expression Maps for our SYNCHRON-ized Special Editions are soon to be released.

    Cyril, please don't spread false rumours like I don't like Dorico. That's not true and ridiculous.

    Best regards,
    Andi


    Vienna Symphonic Library
  • Hello Andi

    We are waiting since 4 years for Dorico's expression maps !

    Happy to know you are working on it

    What about VI libs ?

    Best

     

    Cyril


    MacBook Pro M3 MAX 128 GB 8TB - 2 x 48" screen --- Logic Pro --- Mir Pro 3D --- Most of the VI libs, a few Synch... libs --- Quite a few Kontakt libs --- CS80 fanatic
  • Hello Cyril!

    Currently there are no plans to create Dorico Expression Maps for our VI libraries in the nearer future.

    Best regards,
    Andi


    Vienna Symphonic Library
  • Hi Andi, Cyril - 

     

    Thanks for responding. 

    Andi:  Am I missing something, or do we already have expression maps for the 'big one', i.e., Synchron Strings?  I'm a hobbyist, so not as familiar with what's out there as some of your customers.  If not, are you planning on making such an expression map?   Or is it perhaps not worth it, i.e., it will be very difficult to automate the full expression of the library even with the expression maps in Dorico, and one is better off working in Cubase?  Or does Dorico have the ability (through controllers, etc. on top of key switches) to access the full palette of VSL, and this is just a matter of not having the resources to create the expression maps?  

    My dream (as a hobbyist for 30 years) is to be able to access all of the verisimilitude available in these libraries without having to program extensively, or even, at all - just write the music a la Staffpad and the 'interpretation engine' takes over, with a few controls available for drawing curves, etc.  

    My offer to crowd fund the effort stands!  Perhaps I am naively underestimating the scale of the effort...

    All the best, 

    Eric


  • Hello Eric!

    The Dorico Expression Maps for the SYNCHRON-ized Special Editions will be the first ones that we release. Some users have made Dorico Expression Maps for other libraries and posted about them here on the forum.

    Before we think about what libraries might be next to create Dorico Expression Maps for, we have to finish the ones for SYNCHRON-ized Special Editions, check out how much demand is there and how they are received.

    Best regards,
    Andi


    Vienna Symphonic Library
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    @fanagiga said:

    Am I missing something, or do we already have expression maps for the 'big one', i.e., Synchron Strings?  

    Hi Eric,

    I think you know this, but to be sure: Paul Walmsley from Steinberg created an expression map for Synchron Strings. Here is a link.

    Synchron Strings Expression map


  • Hey MMKA - 

    I wasn't aware of that particular set.  Thanks for the link!

    Happy composing, 

    Eric


  • I would kick in $100 (US) to get Expression Maps for Solo Strings.


  • Hey EricNJ et al -

    I'll re-designate my original $1k for just solo strings too!  There have to be some experts out there that can get this one done?  Conditions:  Veracity/quality to be confirmed by Andi!

    Happy composing everyone..., 

    Eric


  • why on earth would you want to crowdfund something like this when a few people have already created maps and have made them available for free download on the Dorico forum.  Of course the natural answer is that you want the highest quality. The problem is that many of the libraries are so complex that everyone will use them in different ways. I'm perfectly happy with my own sy-ed solo strings maps and if I used anyone else's would certainly have to adjust them to my own tastes. Likewise, I would expect anyone using mine to also make  adjustments to suit their own requirements as this is a complex library which can be configured in many different ways. That's not to say that a library with strong input and quality-checking by VSL wouldn't be valuable -- of course it would.

    Having said that, I'm interested what the "official" VSL maps for the rather simpler Synchron-ized SE will be like when they are released, (maybe next Wednesday along with the video). I do hope they support all the latest features in Dorico as that will make it easier to see if I might have missed a trick or two when designing my own. And I'm sure they will be invaluable for those who don't have the time or inclination to go down that road.


  • As far as I can tell there is nothing currently available for Solo Strings - that is my need.


  • Hello,

    I don't know if you're looking for VI or Synchron, but for information Dorico Expression Maps for Synchron Solo Strings can be found here:

    https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=246&t=191899

    Regards,

    Gil.


  • as well as Gil's suggestion, you can try out my latest (and a previous version) here https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1018457#p1018457

    In theory, all the maps are supposed by collected by the Dorico board into one single sticky (which you may well have seen) but it is far from complete so you need to hunt around a bit. I repeat my caution that the Solo Strings are too complex for any single map to provide all the answers to everyone and most will want to modify a few things at least according to taste. Mine are based on the "Basic" template but with modifications and are designed primarily for the classical string quartet/quintet/sextet.

    For VI there are to my knowledge, only the Cubase maps, though I could be wrong. VSL are not going to support VI maps from what I understand.


  • last edited
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    @fanagiga said:

    Hey EricNJ et al -

    I'll re-designate my original $1k for just solo strings too!  There have to be some experts out there that can get this one done?  Conditions:  Veracity/quality to be confirmed by Andi!

    Happy composing everyone..., 

    Eric

    Hi Eric -

     

    Is your offer of $1k for solo strings still on the table?   If yes, I am willing to reach out to Daniel @ Dorico and see if it is OK to post this on the Dorico Forum


  • This will be of interest:

    https://www.articulate-preset.com/articulate-map


    Dorico, Notion, Sibelius, StudioOne, Cubase, Staffpad VE Pro, Synchon, VI, Kontakt Win11 x64, 64GB RAM, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, August Forster 190
  • I've spent some time looking at this today and it's obvious a lot of work has gone into it. I urge Dorico VIPro users to investigate as the alternatives are not that numerous to the best of my knowledge.


  • Did you purchase, or just using the demo?

    Yes, a lot of work! I'm sort of disapointed they used Program change instead off CCs to switch matrices.


    Dorico, Notion, Sibelius, StudioOne, Cubase, Staffpad VE Pro, Synchon, VI, Kontakt Win11 x64, 64GB RAM, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, August Forster 190
  • These days I'm mostly a user of the Synchron-ized libraries (apart from anything else, they're easier to programme in Dorico, I think) so haven't purchased anything as yet but I know that many still swear by the VI versions and it's obvious this is a labour of love.