Harmonics notation and sounding pitch

[Northfield]

Hello,

I have been using harmonics with Solo Cello I, notating them using the Sibelius keypad circular harmonic symbol. This works OK but the standard is that this symbol indicates that the harmonic sounds at the notated pitch but with VSL the note actually sounds two octaves above. Is this just a VSL error or is there a way to deal with this? I use a Mac, Sibelius 8, Symphonic Cube and Vienna Ensemble (not Pro).

I tried using the other method described on the Optimising Sibelius manual of adding a diamond notehead a fourth above a normal note but this produces no harmonic at all. The manual says I should uses VSL House Style 2.0 but I do not know what iteration of the House Style I am using as it is not obvious how to find out.

Thanks.

[andi]

Hello Northfield!

The octave setting of the harmonics in the Sibelius VI presets for the strings has been optimized for notation with the diamond notehead a fourth above the root note. That's the way they have been recorded and that's probably the most common way to notate them (see attached screenshot).

I have just tried it here with this kind of notation and it works without problems here. The harmonic sounds two octaves above the root note - that's the pitch that comes from this kind of harmonic. If you have run the VSL Soundset Installer in the last four years, you have a newer version of the "Vienna Symphonic Library" House Style version 2.0 installed. So with this House Style loaded, it should work on your place too.

Best regards,
Andi

[Northfield]

Thank you Andi - I have now got this to work and realised my mistake but it raises another question - I can only get this to work with a minim with this type of notation - no other rhythmic units work (that I have discovered). So in the first attached image, only the first low C produces a harmonic C two octaves above, the others produce no harmonic. Clearly in a score harmonics could be played using a variety of rhythms (see second attachment from my score) but it does not seem this is possible (though this works fine with the circle above the note keypad notation method).

[andi]

Hello Northfield!

The diamond notehead triggers harmonics with every note value here. Maybe you use a different kind of diamond-like symbol. Only the third notehead in the list called "diamond" will work. The one you have used seems to fill out the notehead of the quarter note. That must be a different kind of notehead.

Best,
Andi

[Northfield]

Yes the second one along is a filled in notehead that I thought I would try, but the others are all the same one (i.e. the third on down on the dropdown Sibelius notehead type menu, but only the minim one works so there is a problem somewhere.

One other harmonic question - the Solo Cello I Extended should have natural harmonics samples as well as artificial but not sure how these trigger since one would not use the stopped note plus diamond note to notate these as they require just a single touch at a specific node, though the note that results is not necessarily the same one as at the node. Sometimes this are notated at sounding pitch with the circle above the note or a diamond note (only) at the node. What is the procedure here for these?

Thanks.

[andi]

Hello Northfield!

You can trigger the natural harmonic patches with the help of custom cells
https://www.vsl.info/en/tutorials/guides/sibelius-integration/ve-strings#custom

Please note that these patches are mapped differently to make all notes available in one patch. So the written pitch and the sounding pitch will not concur with these patches.

Best,
Andi

[Northfield]

Thanks Andi I have managed to get it all to work now.

I realise with the artificial harmonics that if you just select the stopped note it only sounds the stopped note - you actually have to play the sequenced score for the harmonic to kick in.

[michael.matthews]

Something that I do not understand about VSL artificial harmonics is why they are mapped as they are. 

Let's consider an artificial harmonic on the G-string of the violin, the one achieved by fingering a note and then touching the string a perfect fourth above that, indicated by a normal notehead for the lower pitch and a diamond notehead for the upper pitch. On the violin the lowest artificial harmonic of this type is a concert pitch of Ab5, two octaves above Ab3 (the lowest fingered pitch on the G-string of the violin). When you play the midi note for this Ab5 pitch using the Vl_harm-art_sus patch, the concert pitch that results is Ab6, one octave higher. 

This causes no end of problems when using notation software that correctly maps the diamond artificial harmonic notation to the correct concert pitch, because then all of the harmonics in the score sound an octave higher than they should.

Why was this decision made?

Thanks, 

Michael

[andi]

Hello Michael!

The artificial harmonics have been mapped one octave lower because of the range of MIDI keyboards. The way they are mapped now, all notes can be played with a keyboard. There are far more users triggering our samples by playing them on a keyboard than by notation software.

If you are using Sibelius, the octave is corrected in the instrument definitions of the "Vienna Symphonic Library" house style. So the correct pitch should get played. If you are using a different notation program, you can shift the octave in the Vienna Instruments (Pro) or Synchron Player.

Best regards,
Andi

[michael.matthews]

Hello Andi,

Thanks very much for your reply. I figured that this was the case. I disagree with this decision, as from my perspective it breaks the basic logic and consistency of the mapping plan. But I will adjust.

All the best,

Michael