@hetoreyn said:

Frankly I'm mortally offended by the idea of music libraries because they take away work from people, like myself, trying to find work scoring movies. Who's gonna want to pay someone to compose something for them if they can go to a library and pay less for something generic. That's just my opinion, but as a budding film score composer I'd like to see these things gone and more sites helping musicians to find work.

Let's face it your hardly gonn make a mint out of making library music. And there's no assurance of repeat business. In any case, it's pure luck if you find what your looking for, whereas if you talk to a composer he/she can give you exactly what you want. (Most of the time... hehe)

Well I'm mortally offended that you would wish to limit my income as a library music composer by offering to score the films yourself.
And while I'm at it I'm also mortally offended that people would want to use sample libraries instead of using live players; just think of all those players that are being put out of work.
Regarding the financial aspect, maybe you wouldn't make a mint out of library music, maybe you aren't any good at it, maybe it pays my mortgage just fine [H]

DG

Thanks you guys for your imput. I, too, do custom scores for picture, and I would argue that custom music is the answer for achieving a stronger emotional impact for the project, but as a composer, I'm just looking for other income opportunities.

@hetoreyn said:

[...] Let's face it your hardly gonn make a mint out of making library music. And there's no assurance of repeat business. [...]

Hm - as a matter of fact, about 95% of the maybe 400 corporate videos and multimedia-events I've been involved in between 1988 and 2003 had to rely on library music ... so the demand is definetly there, especially on the lower end of the AV-foodchain.

OTOH, as Hetoreyn wrote, I earned close to nothing from the bunch of library-music CDs my partner and I composed and produced during these years (for a small - maybe too small - specialized label). And yes, nobody urged us to continue when we decided to quit this market. - But this may just mean that our music was bad! [8-)]

/Dietz

Hope I'm not prying,[:O]ops: but, Dietz, what does "close to nothing" actually mean? What were you paid and how were you paid? Were you paid a "buy-out" creative fee, or did you receive royalties?

We received a small refund for our production-expenses, and almost no royalties. This was mainly because the label went belly-up only a short time after our last CD.

Mind you - this was quite some years ago, so today you could find yourself in a situation where you wouldn't receive one cent for the production of the tracks themselves (apart from the royalties, of course - as soon as your music gets played).

But maybe you are simply better and/or more lucky then us back then [:)] , so don't be too afraid.

/Dietz

I used to work in music copyright for a major broadcaster and can testify that the production music library market is massive. The likes of BMG/Zomba and EMI wouldn't still be commissioning 50+ albums a year if there was no money in it. You'll find Harry Gregson-Williams material on library, as well as Jonathan Butler and Martin Taylor, along with a number of members of this forum (I know who you are!!).

Obviously, some libraries are better equipped to get your music used than others and you might waste your time with some of the smaller ones (I have, but then others have done rather well - phew!), but many composers make a very decent living from just library music. You also need to see it as a long term investment of your time and patiently wait for those performance and mechanical royalties to surface, often via overseas agencies. Deals will vary from library to library, generally 50% of royalty income, though a few will pay a small advance in addition while others may commission an annual quota for a larger fee.

It can be tough to get a deal with the major libraries as they already have most styles well covered but, as with everything, pertistance may well be rewarded if the standard is high enough.

Good luck!

Colin

I recently had been contemplating selling material to the Music Bakery and even met with some of their people to get reactions on what material from my own catalogue of unsold pieces would appeal to these corporate types. As it turned out they loved my VSL stuff but they really want tracks that sound like the evening news; high energy orchestra w/ rock rhythm section.

Dallas is big in the corporate music scene and friends of mine have done a lot of this kind of thing, but I never had the stomach to put together that stuff at the production level that gets the good dollar (and EVERYTHING is a buyout--no royalties). Besides, they want stems for everything. Every drum track soloed, etc. so they can remix and exploit one track into a bunch of variations, thus generating many times the material from the music submitted.

The Bakery also will not accept filmic loops like from Stylus or Distorted reality. They will do all of that. They want real drums & perc., real brass, etc. Skillful mixing can get VSL to sound great but since they will be remixing everything the tracks have to sound great soloed. Going through all this trouble for music I couldn't care less for makes the situation unworkable for me.

The Fat Man in Austin can act as a brokerage for music as well. If, however, you look at what they'll pay you then look at what they charge their clients you probably wouldn't consider library music. You can even download a contract from their website to see how some of that stuff works out on paper. They don't actually buy tracks, they are given exclusive rights for licensing your music and they give you like %5 of what they make or something.

If you can find a library that will pay out decent royalties, etc., then (i believe) you will have found a rare service. All that I have encountered (save for the Fat Man) require a buyout.

Clark

The Music Bakery is a 'royalty-free' library which is another thing altogether.

Royalty-free libraries will want tracks for which the composer is happy to relinquish all the mechanical rights (along with those mechanical royalties). This can save the production company a lot of money - instead of paying for every 30 seconds of use they just buy a downloadable track or CD (at an inflated price) which comes with a licence to use the music on any production they make now or in the future. Terms vary wildly, but that's the gist of it. Some sell stuff that is also free of Performance Rights (for use in malls and exhibitions etc) , but that means that the composers can't be a member of any P.R.O. - as being a member of PRS or ASCAP etc means that all your work is administered by that society, you can't opt out like you can on the mechanicals.

Production Music Libraries on the other hand (read Carlin, Chappell Music, KPM, Atmosphere/BMG etc) have their music licenced via the Mechanical Societies/Agencies (MCPS in the UK) and based on their rates for whatever medium the production is being sold on or copied to. They release CDs of material according to musical genre and distribute them to broadcasters and corporate video producers around the world for free, making their money back (and the composers) from the royalty income.

Some of the royalty-free libraries may insist on a buyout, but I have no experience of this, indeed many companies deal on a non-exclusive basis, allowing the composer to sell the same material to a number of libraries - I don't see this as very beneficial to the customer though as often they can find the same track on sale with a two different companies offering different terms and prices. Both royalty-free (or 'copyright-free') libraries and production music libraries will generally offer a 50% royalty split - the royalties from royalty-free music being from track/CD sales and maybe some performance income.

I'm sure I've made this all as clear as mud, but that's copyright for you!

Colin

@cwillsher said:

.

Some of the royalty-free libraries may insist on a buyout, but I have no experience of this....

Colin

I believe that legally there is no such thing as a "buyout" in the UK, unless the material is an arrangement of a copyright work.

DG

Colin,

That makes excellent sense. I shall check out these companies that you mention. I have to admit most of the scene in Dallas is very commercial/corporate such as radio ID's (Access broadcasting) and news packages (Stephen Arnold group) so they are interested in buying everything then do re-sings for different clients, making five or six figures off of a single track and the composer gets a one time fee of a thousand bucks (usually less).

I guess if you want any kind of money up front you gotta give up the back end, generally speaking.

Clark

No pun intended on the "back end" part.

Clark

Clark:- never give up your 'back end' unless you are guaranteed something massive on the 'front end'!

DG:- Buyout of PRS is not allowed in the UK but MCPS buyouts are commonplace, indeed most cable & satellite broadcasters insist on it as they refuse to sign agreements with MCPS. I've also had major network broadcasters offering to buy out my PRS (naughty!) because they know how much a track is going to make. I was once offered a sizeable sum to buyout some idents which went on to make five times as much - I refused of course, the actual commission having been completed six months prior to the offer, but be careful out there!

Colin