Legato Long Notes Fade

[Sing4doe]

Paul- I'm having a problem with long notes on legato lines fading before the next attack or at the end of phrases. For example. Violins and violas are playing a melodic line in harmony and at the end of the phrase hold a note for 2 bars. The viola note will play for the full 2 bars but the violin note will fade out after the first bar. I've played with the On Velocity etc to see if that has any impact but so far no luck. To get around this problem I've created another sustain track but obviously this eats up ram and takes a lot of time to get the transition to sound right.

Any thoughts-

Geoff

[mosso]

Found this in another thread...

Martin

@Paul said:

Hi Piernick,

there are 2 solutions for your problem:

1) upgrade to GS 3 and you will get new, free art-file updates that include sustain blends.

2) there is a little trick for all ensembles with GS 2.5.: When you play the note you want to play longer, step on your sustain pedal and retrigger the note you just played. This will trigger the starting note, a "normal" sustained note, that will mix with the note you just played.

So: play your legato line until you get to the long note. When you played it, hold the sustain pedal => retrigger the same note and hear what happens.

Hope this helps. As mentioned before, this only works with ensembles, solo instruments would always phase....

Best wishes, Paul

[Paul]

Thanks Martin,

I missed that thread, sorry. I want to add that this works not only with GS 3, but also with EXS, HALion and Kontakt programs.

Best wishes,

Paul

[Sing4doe]

Guys- I've been trying to get that to work but no matter how I manipulate the velocity and the "in" point for both the sustain pedal and the retriggered note, I get a definite "bump". I tried retriggering the note without the sustain pedal and it sounds the same as when I used the sustain pedal (and yes my sustain pedal is working just fine).

The most acceptable sounding workaround I could find was to create separate sustain tracks for any performance legato sustain over 1 bar then copying those long notes to the sustain tracks and then going back and shorting the Performance Legato note on the original track to around 60 ticks. That gives the transition sound and seems to soften the attack sound on the sustain track. Still not perfect and a royal pain in the a$$ (not to mention the additional ram strain) but it's at least it sounds somewhat natural. Hope there's a way to fix this problem in the future....

Geoff

[Sing4doe]

Oops sorry- the necessary ticks for the transition varies by tempo and instrument but it's somewhere between 60- 180 ticks.

Geoff

[dpcon]

Yes that really is the only workaround: adding a sustain note in another track and crossfading.

The real answer is the perfleg+SB instruments for GS3 that are created by the artfiles. With these you just modwheel into the Sustain note on the same instrument. In fact the artfiles give you a level of expression that would take several instrument tracks to emulate.

Go to the Gigastudio forum here and find the sticky ARTFILES.

Dave Connor

[Sing4doe]

Dave-

I'm using Kontakt and Opus 1 so I'm afraid I'm out of luck unless out of the kindness of their hearts VSL makes those artfiles available to those of us on the lower end of the spectrum. [[;)]] Show us poor folk some love VSL.....

Geoff

[nicks]

Dear Sing4doe,

I have ound with the performance legatos that the way to trigger a longer note is to leave a gap between it and the previous note (which may not suit your phrasing). If you do this, it seems to treat the note as the first note of a phrase, and therefore a longer sustain for these notes seems to have been sampled.

Hope this helps.

Kind Regards,

Nick.

[Paul]

Geoff,

the files that need to be updated in GigaStudio are already included in your Kontakt programs (and yes, also in EXS24 and HALion programs, we always show the kindness of our heart, most of the time documented in so-called manuals and mapping documentations...).

Greetings, Paul

[Sing4doe]

Thanks Nick!

Yeah that can work but I lose the phrasing as you indicated. Can't afford to hire an orchestra so... we do what we can.

On a more serious note, thoughts and prayers from all of us in America to everyone in the UK. Simply horrific what our fellow man is capable of. They are truly evil. We are with you and always will be.

Geoff

[Sing4doe]

Paul-

I found the artfiles in my Kontakt library. Since Kontakt came with no documentation on how to use those files and since I can't find anything in my Opus manual, I'm thrilled to have the files but have absolutely no idea how to use them within Performance Legatos. Does the mod wheel simply act like a fader? Someone wrote that you can do this all on one track. How does that work if the artfiles don't work thru Performance tool? Do I still create another track but just crossfade up as the Performance Legato track fades? Still confused.

Geoff

[Paul]

Hi Geoff,

to avoid misunderstandings: art-files have nothing to do with Kontakt!

Kontakt´s programs are called ".nki", the setup guide for Kontakt is to be found here:

http://www.vsl.co.at/english/pages/profile/news/formats_%26_performance_tool.htm

BTW: How did you get art-files, they cannot be in your download area?

The mapping documentation for your products can be found here:

http://www.vsl.co.at/english/pages/user_area/downloads/manuals.htm

And yes, in the programs called "ModWheel Blend" the ModWheel acts like a fader.

If you think, you are missing something that might be essential, please ask!

Best wishes,

Paul

[Sing4doe]

Paul-

Sorry, the ones I have aren't artfiles they are .nki files, I assumed the "art" in artfile was descriptive rather than a file appendage. So many terms...geez! Imagine how confused i'd be if I had the whole library!

I've downloaded the manuals and read them. While they're great at documenting the files and providing a thumbnail overview, they really don't get into the nitty gritty of "okay so you want to put this kind of musical phrase together... here's a musical phrase notated on paper and here's several ways of interpreting that phrase using VSL with track layouts and graphic midi info in a sequencer. Just doing that with one 4 bar phrase would be a huge help. I bought the DVD tutorial and while it's helpful, it too doesn't get into detail. Even having a midi file with a 4 bar musical phrase laid out in a typical fashion with performance legatos etc. that can be opened by each sequencer supported would be great! Just an idea...

I'm on a deadline so I'm learning VSL, programming and juggling phone calls at the same time. Appreciate the help and input. You guys are great.

Geoff

[Paul]

Hi,

there are some very nice tutorials from Beat Kaufmann to be found here:

http://community.vsl.co.at/viewtopic.php?t=4968

First thread in this forum....

That should be helpful.

Greetings,

Paul

[Sing4doe]

Thanks Paul!

Those tutorials are great. Didn't know they were there.

Geoff

[hermitage59]

Geoff,
I'll only speak for myself, and say thank you for your kind words about the events in London. I spoke with friends who live in London earlier and I am much relieved they're safe. As a Briton, i'm 'conditioned' by history and humanity to respond to this with determination, and as a human being I constantly fight the desire to become cynical about the prospects for our species, given events like this.
I'm not sure this forum or thread is the right place to speak of this, so i won't say any more, other than to hope that PaulR, DG, Davetubaking, their families, friends and other contributors are safe and well.

Thanks again,

Alex.

[Sing4doe]

Alex-

Any forum is appropriate to offer compassion.

Music is, after all, the purist repository of the best of humanity and creativity is what elevates the species.

I hope all are safe and continue to be safe.

Geoff

[DG]

I have spent much of the last day checking up on all the people I know and work with; not a small task, but so far they all seem to be OK. Thanks for all the thoughts.

DG