Set-up for Sibelius and synchronized special edition

[Oceanview]

Hello Andy,

I'm having a problem understanding the set-up procedure to get the Synchron SE and Synchron SE piano working in Sibelius. (I'm usign Sibelius Ultimate latest and Windows 7 64 bit.) I have the sample content for the SynSE on an external SSD drive.

When Sibelius opens Vienna Ensemble 6 also opens. I load a piano score. There doesn't seem to be a synchron piano staff listed in the house style - is that ok?

In Playback devices I find Vienna Syn Piano Surround, Vienna Syn Pianos, Vienna Synchron Player surround, Vienna Syn Player listed in addition to the usual V Instruments Pro and Vienna Ensemble.

Do I make the V Syn Piano and V Syn Player both active devices with the Vienna Syn Special Ed soundset? Is this correct?

By clicking 'show' I can see the GUIs for the piano and the player. But I can't figure out how tp proceed from here. There is no sound from the piano; no presets listed in the player. I assume I have to load the piano into the player but there is nothing I can see in the player at present to click on to do this - no list of presets.

I'm obviously doing something wrong.

Thanks for your help.

[andi]

Hello Oceanview!

With Sibelius I recommend loading the Synchron Pianos player inside Vienna Ensemble. If the Concert D-274 Light from the SYNCHRON-ized Special Edition doesn't appear inside, I guess that maybe the content is not installed or not assigned.

The content can be downloaded and installed with the Vienna Download Manager.
https://www.vsl.co.at/en/SY_Library_Downloads

If the content is installed, but not correctly assigned, you can do that in the Synchron Pianos Settings under Database.

I hope this helps.

Best regards,
Andi

[Oceanview]

Hello Andi,

Work has until now prevented me dealing with the Synchron Special Ed and Sibelius playback problem after your reply of a couple of weeks back. Having looked at it again I am still in the position of nothing working.

If I load an instance of the Syn Player or the Syn Piano in an instance of VE I get the respective GUIs but the Syn Player has no presets listed on the right hand side. I can find the 6 settings of the Light Steinway on the right of its GUI but clicking on any of them does not load any samples. The database for the piano says C:\Program Files\Avid\VSTPlugins. The Volume Scan Paths is blank. In the Syn Player there are no presets and a refresh doesn't do anything either. The database looks the same as the Syn Player - C:\Program Files\Avid\VSTPlugins. and Vol Scan Paths is empty.

Audio Engines in Sibelius is showing C:\Program Files\Avid\VSTPlugins and C:/Program Files/VSTPlugins. (Notice the slashes are going in different directions ...??)  So there is a VST Plugins folder inside AND outside Sibelius. I have copied the dll files into both but this has slowed the initial load up of Sibelius because it is now scanning for 13 dll x64 files when it should only be looking for about 5 or 6.

There are configuration settings in a file at C:\AppData\Roaming\VSL.

I have tried rescan and also the directory manager scan which finds the Synchron Special Ed content on the external SSD drive. There are five folders on that drive - one is full of Special Edition vsynvolume files including the Steinway patches, room and close - I take it that's the new light piano. The other four folders are called T11_SY-ized_SE_Vol-1 / 2 / 1+/2+. Those are X and Y files. The package info file is also there. So those are the original downloads and the vsynvolume file folder is the installed files?

I did run the Soundset Installer again and the House Style loads into a score okay.

I'm left with these initial problems: why are the presets not appearing and where should they be? The installer should have put them in the right folder? Also, why is the piano not loading? Without the presets I can't even try loading the Special edition instruments load.

Best wishes,

[andi]

Hello Oceanview!

Please delete the .dll files that you have copied. They will only cause troubles. Only keep the original dll files that you have installed.

.vsynvolume files are installed content files for Synchron Player and Synchron Pianos player.
.x, .y and package.info files are the downloaded installation files. After the content has been installed, they can be deleted.

It seems to me that the step you are missing is in Synchron Player. Please go to the Preferences/Database menu. Click the PLUS symbol and select the folders where you have installed your Synchron content. That's the folder with the vsynvolume files.

The Directory Manager is only for Vienna Instruments libraries. So you can remove the folders that include vsynvolumes only from there.

Best regards,
Andi

[Oceanview]

Hello Andy,

I deleted the dlls as you recommended. That's better on load-up.

I can now load the Synchron piano and trigger the notes with the mouse; likewise can load something from the Special Edition and do the same. The list of instruments is now appearing.

Are there dedicated Synchronized Special Edition staffs in Sibelius' add instruments list? Or is it just a matter of loading the usual Special Edition?

There is no sound from Sibelius though - on either a string setting or the piano.

Synchron Piano: Sibelius mixer says ch 1 VS K, twice, and there is a click also on ch 1. Is that correct?

What are the correct MIDI channel numbers in and out of Ensemble and Synchron Player or Piano? Avoiding channel conflicts ... in case this is the problem.

Also, I'm not clear about how the Synchron Player and Piano is supposed to be set up inside Sibelius. If I want a 5part string section usually I have an instance of Vienna Ensemble as an active device in Sibelius and then set up manual soundset / channels there. Is this the same with the Synchron PLayer? i.e. it is not loaded in Sibelius with a separate manual soundset for every instance of it? It is just loaded inside V Ensemble with an instance for each instrument needed. The manual soundset / channel is done in the Playback section of Sibelius only in relation to one instance of Ensemble?

(I can't find a video tutorial on the website that would cover these steps - we need something that explains the stuff that comes in between installation and playing around with loaded samples, especially if linked to a keyboard. Some of us are only working from a score inside Sibelius.) I think for the developers this stuff is blindingly obvious but for some us not at all.)

Thanks in anticipation.

[andi]

Hello Oceanview!

There are no dedicated SYNCHRON-ized Special Edition instruments in the Sibelius "Add or Remove Instruments" menu. Please load the same instruments, as you would load for the VI Special Edition.

Using Synchron Player with Sibelius is no different than using Vienna Instruments with Sibelius. Activate Vienna Ensemble and add as many Synchron Player (or Synchron Pianos) instruments inside, as you need. Make sure to use the same channels in Vienna Ensemble and on the Sibelius Manual Sound Sets page.

If no sound is generated, please follow the signal chain.

- Do the MIDI signals reach the instruments in Vienna Ensemble?

- Is an audio signal generated in the player?

- Does the audio signal leave Vienna Ensemble at OUT1/OUT2?

Best regards,
Andi

[Oceanview]

Hello Andi,

Still trying to solve this problem of getting the playback working.  I need to check with you a couple of settings inside VE to make sure this isn't the problem.

1. For every instance of Synchron Player loaded inside VE the top left box should say  1VE Plugin MIDI in 1? Or does that change for each Synchron Player instance? i.e then VE Plugin 1, VE Plugin 2, VE Plugin 3,4,5. 

2. If the Masterbus is channel 1 in VE, the channel for the first instrument is 1 or 2 in the box to the immediate right of where it says 1VE Plugin? I have the first instrument as '1'

I have Orch Violins ok on ch 1; chamber violins on ch 2 ok; viola inaudible but showing signal in VE and in Sibelius Mixer. Contrabass is audible but not responding to changes of articulation.

The click is muted but on the same channel (5) as the double bass in Sibelius Mixer - their volumes are therefore not independent of each other.

Best wishes,

   

[andi]

Hello Oceanview!

1. Sibelius can only load AU- and VST2-Instruments. These formats can only use one MIDI port per instrument. So please keep the MIDI port at "1" (or All).

2. The Master bus doesn't have a MIDI channel number. The MIDI channel numbers are written and can be selected in the channel list under the panner (second number) and above the instrument (second number).

What kind of signal does the Viola show? MIDI input, audio signal or both?

If the click is muted in the Sibelius mixer, it doesn't do any harm.

Best,
Andi

[Oceanview]

Hello Andi,

Thought I would let you know I seem to have both the Synchron Piano and the Synchron Player working. I'm not sure what made the difference, but I did do a certain amount of re-applying the channels inside Sibelius playback and possibly deleting and re-pasting staffs in the time-honoured way ...

Very impressed with the resonance of the light Steinway when the Sus button has been pushed and with pedal markings in place.

Thanks.

[andi]

Hello Oceanview!

That's good to read. Thanks for the feedback.

Best,
Andi

[Oceanview]

Hello Andi,

Well I guess I spoke too soon ... The problems with the Player (not the Piano) persist.

Today I tried creating a string quartet using the Synchron SEd samples. I wanted Solo violin, Solo violin 2, Viola and Cello. Only one or two of the instruments would play back. At one point the viola staff was also triggering the cello sound!

Just to clarify: what are the correct staves in Sibelius Add Instruments for the violin 2 and cello 2. There are two staves labelled [VSL Single Instruments] - are those correct or are they not for the Special Edition?

The second group I tried setting up was Flute / Oboe / Cor Anglais / Clarinet / Bassoon / Horn in F / Horn in F / Trumpet / Trombone / Bass trombone. I set up the playback config in Sibelius and the 10 instances of Synchron Player inside a single VE - they were all VE Plugins 1, using channels 1-10.

I entered a couple of notes on the flute staff. At this point, for the first time, I opened the Sibelius Mixer. It had every single of 10 channels was allocated to the flute and on channel 1!

I also notice that If two instances of a single string type are entered the Mixer still insists on putting them on the same channel number. When a Synchron playback config is set up I also find that the Mixer shows everything as nll. And sometimes Shift+Auto does not produce a reset.

Your observations welcome - or anyone else trying to use Synchron Player with Sibelius ...

Thanks.

[andi]

Hello Oceanview!

The Instruments "Solo Violin 2 (VSL Single Instrument)" and "Solo Cello 2 (VSL Single Instrument)" from the Sibelius "Add or Remove Instruments" menu only work with the single instruments. For the SYNCHRON-ized Special Edition, please use the instruments "Solo Violin" and "Solo Violoncello".

Please don't set up MIDI channels in the Sibelius mixer. The channels need to be set up on the Manual Sound Sets page.

Best,
Andi

[Oceanview]

Hello Andi,

I'm sorry I didn't make my set-up procedure clear. I NEVER even LOOK at the Sibelius Mixer until everything else is set up and loaded in Vienna Ensemble and the Sibelius Playback page. I only LOOK at the Mixer if the playback is not automatically working, and I only then use auto-reset if the Mixer is showing blank channels and everything else nll. Only as a LAST resort would I then try setting the Mixer because there seem no other options.

I am going to send you some files to have a look at.

This morning I tried to set up a 5-pt string section using the Synchron SE Appasionata on 1, 3, 4 and 5, with 2 taken by Violins Orch in order to avoid two instances of the Appass Violins causing trouble on Ch 1. I started with a blank page, imported the latest House Style (I assume it continues to be called Vienna Symphonic Library), set up Sibelius PLayback using the Special Edition staves, assigning etc). I loaded 5 instances of the Synchron Player into VE which automatically load to channels 2-6. They all play when tested by the mouse on the VE keyboard.

At this point everything is in place and one has an expectation that the staves should now play any notes entered without further intervention.

Instead I find that the Mixer has assigned channels in the wrong order. I also find that hovering over the Mixer to get soundIDs visible I see references to chamber strings ?? Needless to say there is no correct playback.

The soundset I'm using is 1.0.162.

Can you see what is causing this? How would I go about checking to see if the soundset is the problem, or its location? But I'm guessing here.

[andi]

Hello Oceanview!

I didn't receive any files from you. If you want to send us files, I suggest contacting us via support@vsl.co.at.

In general it's no problem at all to use the same kind of instrument twice or more. So there's no need to use a different string section for the 2nd Violins.

Our Sibelius House Style is still called "Vienna Symphonic Library", that's correct.

When you write about channels 2-6 in Vienna Ensemble, do you mean the channel counter at the top left of the channels in the channel list. Or do you mean the MIDI channel number at the lower right? It's important that you choose the same MIDI channel number in Vienna Ensemble and on the Sibelius Manual Sound Sets tab. For that you can ignore the channel counter number.

If you see the Sound IDs of chamber strings in the Sibelius mixer, you might have the wrong instruments in your score. For the SYNCHRON-ized Special Edition Appassionata Strings, please use the instruments with "[VSL Special Edition]" at the end of the name from the Sibelius "Add or Remove Instruments" menu.

Best regards,
Andi

[Oceanview]

Hello Andi,

I did get a five stave Syn Sp Ed Apassionata strings to work. It looked like there might have been a mis-match between the SE2 and SE3 staves for those instruments on my part. Okay, a step forward.

The first instance of the Synchron Player loaded into VE every time in my set-up is automatically allocated ch 2 so this has to be manually corrected to ch 1 (this is the small box to the right of VE Plugin 1. I'm not sure why it was designed to do that rather than go straight to channel 1.

Today I tried setting up a 10 string playback where staves 1,3,5,7,9 are solo Syn SE instruments and 2,4,6,8,10 are orchestral Syn SE. In VE I had 10 instances of the PLayer channel 1-10, I loaded solo violin + and solo violin II +; I also loaded violins orch + and second violins orch +, then orch violas, cellos and basses all +. I chose 'solo violin' for the two solo violin parts (not the Single Instrument) and the even-numbered staves were all from the VSL Special edition (where it seems the staves in Special Edition are the same for chamber as for orchestral).

This didn't playback properly. When I checked the Mixer Sibelius had automatically put the two solo violins onto ch 1; it also put the two violins groups onto the same channel. The solo  violin II sounds and the violins II sounds were not triggered.

Without a separate dedicated second solo violin or second violins staff I don't see how to stop these channel conflicts.

Best wishes.

[andi]

Hello Oceanview!

The first instrument that you add in Vienna Ensemble gets MIDI Port 1/MIDI Channel 1 assigned. Maybe you have looked at the channel counter at the left. An empy Vienna Ensemble instance already includes a Master Bus with channel counter 1. So when you add an instrument it will have channel counter 2, but MIDI channel 1.

If you want to, you can send the score and playback configuration (xml file and files in the data folder) of your strings project to support@vsl.co.at and I will take a look at your files.

Best regards,
Andi

[Itchy]

Oceanview (and Andi)... I skimmed the thread so pardon me if it's been addressed, but as Andi wrote early on, <<Make sure to use the same channels in Vienna Ensemble and on the Sibelius Manual Sound Sets page.>> OK. It seems Oceanview made some things correspond... but maybe not. I haven't seen any emphasis placed on the concept of Sibelius' "manual sound sets" and their significance and implementation, and it seems that might be a weak link in this scenario. Just a thought. Oceanview, make sure you've read the Sibelius Refence Manual re: Manual Sound Sets & the "preferred instruments" settings. If this is all properly set up, you should be able to choose "Auto" in Sibelius' mixer... and at least the correct sounds should load. From there, you may have to make absolutely sure the Sibelius Mixer ch.1 is assigned MIDI1, ch.2=midi2, etc. In order to get this to even be possible on my iMac setup, I assign 1 & only 1 of the correct MIDI channel assignments in Sibelius' Mixer, then I *must* hit Play & then I immediately stop & I'm then able to assign the next MIDIch for the next Sibelius Mixer slot. Seems playing the piece somehow wakes up or "registers" the MIDI assignment in the Sib Mixer.

I do hope some of this is useful & not 100% preaching to the choir!

[andi]

Hello Itchy!

In general I wouldn't recommend what you have done. In my experience assigning channels on the Sibelius mixer page always brings troubles. But if it works fine for you, then of course you can do it that way.

Best regards,
Andi

[Itchy]

.   Andi! Having read this thread more thoroughly, I hope you can understand me today with my foot in my mouth. :)

.   I’m replying to say I’m surely missing/ misunderstanding some important things because:

.   I see manual soundsets were indeed mentioned, and you also already advised <<Please don't set up MIDI channels in the Sibelius mixer. The channels need to be set up on the Manual Sound Sets page.>> and <<Make sure to use the same channels in Vienna Ensemble and on the Sibelius Manual Sound Sets page>>.

.   [i]My experience is that this in itself is insufficient specifically because Sibelius’ Mixer’s MIDI assignments seem to have a mind of their own[/i]. I do not get correct results with Sibelius & VE Pro6 unless I take the time to assign MIDI channels [i]in the Sibelius Mixer[/i] as I’d written. To be clear, the order of instruments I list in my Manual Soundset correspond exactly to those instruments’ MIDI assignments I establish for them in VE Pro6. In Sibelius’ Manual Soundset tab, I set-up “Preferred Devices” as well. However, for me, at this point Sibelius’ Mixer still shows seemingly random MIDI channel assignments.

.   I see Andi further verifies: <<It's important that you choose the same MIDI channel number in Vienna Ensemble and on the Sibelius Manual Sound Sets tab. For that you can ignore the channel counter number>> (of the channels in the channel list of VE).

.   ...and<<The first instrument that you add in Vienna Ensemble gets MIDI Port 1/MIDI Channel 1 assigned. Maybe you have looked at the channel counter at the left. An empty Vienna Ensemble instance already includes a Master Bus with channel counter 1. So when you add an instrument it will have channel counter 2, but MIDI channel 1.>>

.   So I’m misunderstanding something key here. Could it be possible I’ve been confusing VE Pro6’s “channel counter” (at the top left) with “MIDI channel number” (at the lower right)?! I think I avoid that confusion because my habit is that the Master Fader belongs right-most/ last in the channel list, so it’s always the case that the channel order (“Counter”) happens to correspond with the desired MIDI channel assignment that I specify.

.   Please remind me what specifically are the critical aspects of using the ”Vienna Symphonic Library" House Style in Sibelius.

.   I love the back-to-basics checklist, thank you! :<<If no sound is generated, please follow the signal chain.- Do the MIDI signals reach the instruments in Vienna Ensemble? - Is an audio signal generated in the player?- Does the audio signal leave Vienna Ensemble at OUT1/OUT2?>>

[andi]

Hello Itchy!

What the "Vienna Symphonic Library" House Style is for, is explained in the "Optimizing Sibelius Playback" manual, page 7.

I'm not sure, if there was any other question/problem in your post. If I missed one, please let me know.

Best regards,
Andi