@Casiquire said:

For people like me who prefer dry and aren't crazy about the sound of the strings, it would be sad to see the greatest creator of libraries that perfectly fit my workflow abandon it.

That the Synchron-Series realises a completly new acoustic concept, will allow to keep the (most) previous VI products still available. That's why I dont see any reasons to fear that they abandon it if that should mean stop selling and supporting those products.

But the Synchron Series as it started is obviously a huge Project with a lot of stuff already still in the pipeline to complete the whole. Since those are much more basic and necessary Things to complete the Synchron orchestra than some additional historic instruments or additional dimensionstring patches, I just expect that it is much more realistic and reasonable, that the Synchron-Series Project will have a priority in the next time over any further silentstage library to be developed and recorded.

Nevertheless, if ever they still have any unpublished Silentstage recordings trhan more VI-Products are much more realistic to be published sooner or later.

Btw: The synchron-series is in my humble by far not just a "wet" library. It is nearly completly up to the user how wet or how dry he makes his mix. As already diescussed inanother thread it is no problem to handle them as dry only instruments for your own way to create the ambiance you are looking for.

The only difference is that you also can ad the original real ambiance of a realy nice Orchestral Recording studio in a very detailed way and are not completly dependend from additional synthetic reverbration, which you nevertheless can ad as every studio recording engineer is always free to ad to his studiorecordings.

In short I still believe the Synchron player aswell as the synchron series is a huge step ahaed and is just starting to be released. I personally can't see any advantages of the VI-Player over the Synchron player and would even wellcome to finally have the whole VSL-World in the Synchron, or at least as much as possible. And I also believe that the Synchron-Series as a whole will raise the quality of orchestral-samples in so many aspects that it is worth to wait for the whole thing.

+1

The specific additional VI I feel need to be sampled and programmed consistently with the previous VI series are:

Dimension Stings III with ponticello sustain and tremolo, glissandi, spiccato, sampled trills like the Orchestral strings extending beyond half and whole tone intervals (performance trills are no substitute for sampled trills most of the time) and ideally a series of unusual string effects. Having FX on Dimension strings would be mind-blowing. 

Historic winds - SACKBUTTS!  Absolutely essential for so many historic era performances. 

Historic Percussion - the only option now is to use modern percussion instruments - like modern mechanical timpani etc. - a very lame compromise for totally different sounding authentic historical drums and cymbals.

Historic Strings such as Viola de gamba, rebec, theorbo etc. etc. - tons of possibilities there.

It would be completely wrong to do these important additions with a system that did not fit into the previous vast body of samples, so it is essential to produce these first as additional VI.    

YES!!! In a heartbeat. And a Dimension Strings IV with all this played sordino.

"Dimension Stings III with ponticello sustain and tremolo, glissandi, spiccato, sampled trills like the Orchestral strings extending beyond half and whole tone intervals (performance trills are no substitute for sampled trills most of the time) and ideally a series of unusual string effects. Having FX on Dimension strings would be mind-blowing."

@Casiquire said:

There are people who don't want to get into VSL because they don't like dry libraries,

And, you know, that's a crying shame because IMHO the "wetness" of the library doesn't matter all that much..  It's the flexibility that dry samples provide not to mention the user friendly player which was carefully designed with intuitiveness in mind.  Well, if these people don't want to "get into VSL" that just means more VSL for me but I'm sure VSL would appreciate the extra business. 

I simply do not understand this obsession some people have with wet libraries.  They've erroneously convinced themselves that samples smothered in reverb are more realistic and sonically superior.  I don't buy that for a minute.

So VSL, I prevail upon you, do not retire the Silent Stage.  Thank you. 

In my humble opinion the alternative dry = silentstage and wet = synchron simplifys reduce the different character of both projects in a more or less false way:

The silentstage is no at all "dry": it is a studio ambiance which gives room enough to add additional tools for an artificial ambiance.

The Synchron Series is not at all simply "wet" or only meant for those who always expect the whole ambiance being part of the recorded samples: The Synchron-Studio is also a Studio (with obviously long tradition as Filmscoring studio). Yes you do have in Synchron series a very detailed acces to controle the anount of the real studio ambiance which should part of the recordiung you are programming. But it is also in this meaning still a studio, that nothing prevents you from adding aditional tools for shaping the ambiance you are looking for. Moreover already the Synchron-Player and many of its presets ad an artificial algorithmic reverb, while as long you run them in VEpro you can of course place everything you get out of a synchronplayer in your MIR or any other aditional ambiance tool.

In short: Synchron is not "less" possibility it is just "more" and that means in many aspects (not only the ambiance) much more details available and the more the whole series will be released I am sure exactly this aspect will become more and more obvious.

No, that is total misinformation - the silent Stage is definitely dry.

It was designed to be absolutely as silent and non-reverberant as possible in order to allow total freedom of additional reverbs of any kind. This is its great value. It adds almost no color or ambience to the recordings.  The fact that it can be scientifically analyzed in a lab as having "reverb" that is barely detectable by the human ear doesn't translate into what one hears in a simple musical sense, which is a totally dry sound.  The proof of this is that no one ever uses the Silent Stage samples in an actual performance without adding some kind of reverb - they would sound far too dry.  But this allows any kind of reverb from hardware to MIR to Moog analog delay to be used.   

@Another User said:

In short: Synchron is not "less" possibility it is just "more" and that means in many aspects (not only the ambiance) much more details available and the more the whole series will be released I am sure exactly this aspect will become more and more obvious.

In short: that's your opinion. We have a different one. (Personally I totally agree with William for instance).

Anyway we should stop this neverending polemic and just listen to fair and well explained whishes of others. Don't be afraid... you will get your Synchron things, and there is no reward in a VI vs. Synchron battle. 

Yes, I have no desire to downgrade Synchron, I am just making a positive statement about the great VI series. 

Yes LAJ thats the only thing I was talking about. However William is of course still right, in stating, that there is at least so little tail, that you can reasonably ad your own ambiance with whatever tool you like. 

I just tried to indicate, that you are imho in the synchron series still able to use the the Mix in a way wich reduces the tail nearly as much, to work in the same way if you want to, But this is no real dissens also when it comes to the VI-Libraries which I likewise do apreciate very much and consent William in that point.

I just expect, that the Synchron Series will have in the near future a priority to be completed as full orchestra. And I would expect that this is in any way a step ahead whioch will cover nearly everthing we used to get from the cube  in a much higher developed state of the art. (i am not talking about the dimension series which is of course a different concept and will stay attractive as such)

So I dont think that we differ that much. neither is here any "polemic" or need of any reminder against polemic. I can only see great apreciation and interest in the Work of VSL aswell that was already done as in what they are currently doing.

 "I can only see great apreciation and interest in the Work of VSL" - fahl5

Yes, that is it, very well put!  VSL is simply an awesome company.  It made possible music I could never have realized otherwise.  The people at VSL are truly brilliant innovators. 

@fahl5 said:

The silentstage is no at all "dry": it is a studio ambiance which gives room enough to add additional tools for an artificial ambiance.

I don't much care what it is; dry, wet, damp, moisturized, parched or what not.  I'm just enamered by the silent stage and the near sonic purity it creates.

Don't get me wrong, I think Synchron is perhaps the most innovative project of any sample library within the last ten years probably since Dimension  Whatever problems it has currently I think are just growing pains and the series will be perfected as time goes on. 

@William said:

It was designed to be absolutely as silent and non-reverberant as possible in order to allow total freedom of additional reverbs of any kind. This is its great value. It adds almost no color or ambience to the recordings.  The fact that it can be scientifically analyzed in a lab as having "reverb" that is barely detectable by the human ear doesn't translate into what one hears in a simple musical sense, which is a totally dry sound.  The proof of this is that no one ever uses the Silent Stage samples in an actual performance without adding some kind of reverb - they would sound far too dry.  But this allows any kind of reverb from hardware to MIR to Moog analog delay to be used.   

Exactly👍

This is what I meant by flexibility.  Thanks William, you've crystalized my thoughts quite eloquently here.

Let's not forget that creating a sonic environment can be an art form in itself.

@fahl5 said:

So I dont think that we differ that much. neither is here any "polemic" or need of any reminder against polemic. I can only see great apreciation and interest in the Work of VSL aswell that was already done as in what they are currently doing.

Yes with this vision, now, I totally agree. Well stated Fahl.

@William said:

Historic winds - SACKBUTTS!  Absolutely essential for so many historic era performances.

Speaking of the Renaissance trombone, I don't think I have anything useful to say to a company based in the town of the Concentus Musicus Wien, but I'll anyway suggest a reading (or re-reading) to this interesting book on the various sackbuts available today:

https://books.google.it/books?id=9IMVxu1y9O0C&pg=PA9&lpg=PA9&dq=sackbut+small+bore&source=bl&ots=12XAGRd080&sig=il-qvxrXsbxZbWXlLix2jRkWRLw&hl=it&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjrn9Dbnc3dAhWJjCwKHatED3wQ6AEwEXoECAUQAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

In the meantime, while waiting for a true Renaissance trombone library, after having heard what can be done with the Solo Violin 2, Solo Cello 2 and Chamber Strings for Baroque music, I'll see what can be done with the modern trombone family already included in the VI collection.

Paolo

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but weren't bowed string instruments a little different during the Baroque Period?  Weren't the bows shorter for example? 

I'm not sure if that would have any affect on the sound but I was just curious what the differences were between historic strings and contemporary.

There are many different instruments altogether that no longer exist, but also differences in construction, size, materials, timbre, playing techniques.  The modern instruments are just the tail end of instrument-making.  Even in the Classical era - let alone Baroque or earlier eras - one would find instruments considerably different from those in a modern orchestra, which of course accounts for  all the interest in "period" recordings one sometimes finds for example Beethoven symphonies played on all "authentic" instruments of the time, etc.    

@jasensmith said:

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but weren't bowed string instruments a little different during the Baroque Period?  Weren't the bows shorter for example?

Instruments at the beginning of the Baroque era (let's say, the age of Monteverdi) where very different. The violin had a shorter neck, a flatter table, a lower bridge, a very different bow and bowing technique, and different strings. Monteverdi himself, however, ignited several innovations to instrument's making.

Some instruments no longer exist. We no longer use viols. The cornetto, included in the VSL collection, was a common instruments at the beginning of the Seventeenth century, and progressively disappeared while the century progressed. The trombone was different, with a smaller bore and less flared bell, and a technique that asked for a mellower sound conceived to accompany human voices.

The time of Bach was nearer to us. Still different, but with more modern ideas of instrment making and use. There are still noticeable differences, but a VSL user (Philippe Baylac) showed how well you can imitate that style and sound with the instruments contained in the VSL collection of modern instruments. You can listen yourself in his Soundcloud channel:

https://soundcloud.com/search?q=Philippe%20BAYLAC

Imitating older instruments with modern instruments seems to be impossible. Some experimentation can however result in interesting hybrid results (like, for example, the kind of interpretation we were accustomed to with orchestras like the St. Martin-in-the-Fields, or the ones by Pinchas Zukerman).

Paolo

I think that the following statements:

The Silent Stage is dry

The Silent Stage has a lot of early reflections

The Silent Stage was built to color the sound as little as possible

The Silent Stage does have its own color

are all true statements.  You're all correct, the Silent Stage was built to be dry but even a dry environment still has a bit of color, and early reflections are not the same as reverberance.  I have also previously read that Silent Stage recordings get edited to further reduce the amount of tail that gets recorded, maybe I'm remembering wrong but I thought I had read that before.  All of this just means that the VI recordings were *designed* for a particular type of use, and sure you can use Synchron the same way, but that's not its design, and that does make a difference.