Vienna Symphonic Library Forum
Forum Statistics

194,331 users have contributed to 42,916 threads and 257,955 posts.

In the past 24 hours, we have 2 new thread(s), 14 new post(s) and 83 new user(s).

  1. Home
  2. Sample Libraries
  3. Synchron Series
  4. Tschaikowsky: Serenade op.48 with Synchron Strings

  • Tschaikowsky: Serenade op.48 with Synchron Strings

    F
    F
    last edited
    last edited

    Her you can here my progress in Exploring the new Synchron Strings Library I did not made any compromises when it comes to the choose ambituous repertoire and in so far, you presumably will scarcly anyone hear trying such a large rich and brilliant piece of music with any other previous Sample-Library.

    Pjotr Iljitsch Tschaikowsky: Serenade for Strings op.48

    But that is simply what I am interested: Real music not only the "mock up" of an two or three minute excerpt to imitate just the clishee of a certain type of music . And what I am looking for is therefor also not how much this might match the most aquaintend stereotypes of alledged "cinematic" musicproduction (which in itself is for me personal without any deeper musical relevance). What I am looking for how well distinguished this Library might match the whole range of different Colors the Composer composed and demands in his Score. Again I do not pretend anything nor will I give you another of the countless and boring abstract and speculative Judgements.

    So if you are interested in what I currently am able to get out of that Library take half an hour and you know my current situation.

    Some details might be worth to mention.
    1) I have read complains about the limited amount of Patches available. "Playable" means here as it seem to me that this patches include already so much options of differnetiation, without changing the patch that you come very far with them.

    2) The Score demands at the end of movement III and the beginning of Movement IV. Sordini and guess what I simply did what nearly most of the other Stringlibraries did I just close the LPF12 and you've got a sordino just like others who even sell those Filter as "Sordino" option. (Nevertheless I am pretty shure we will get sooner or later the VSL-Real-Consordino Sampleset - and not only the few Short and Sustain patches those offer, who did not use the "Filtertrick")

    I hope at least those who are interested in good classical music realised with good Sample might be interested.
  • C
    C

    Hi Steffen,

    a few questions, if you don't mind?

    1) How much time did you spend to make this? 

    2) How much time (if this is possible to estimate) did it take you to polish the MIDI performance? Here I mean, for example, you probably had to match volume of the parts that play in unison, dynamics, automation, just fixing wrongs to sound right.

    I liked the last movement quite a bit, somehow it felt lively and ... shall I say, natural. Especially the 2nd part of it. The other parts also had great moments, but somehow the ending stood out for me. Also, almost every dynamics change felt quite natural, which suggests you had a quite a time with that :) (hence the question above).

    Apparently, you didn't use anything but SYS, so there's not much to say on the subject of the samples sound as such. Well, one criticism, which is entirely subjective, btw, is that the cellos somehow sounded too timid to me, and this is not right in case of Tchaykovsky who, being a romantic composer, would probably want them to sound bigger and fuller.

    One thing I didn't like much is you choice of ambience, somehow I was not able to feel the space (the stage) the orchetra played in. 

    On the side note, after listening for a few minutes, my ear got used to the sound and the question of realism became not so important to me... not irrelevant, but still. 
  • F
    F
    last edited
    last edited

    Hi crusoe,

    thank you for your detailed and friendly reaction

    I hope I can answer your question (meanwhile am kind of notorious for being instructive and for going in details - Hi Paul 😛)

    1) all together it seem to have been (from July 3rd to the 12th) 9 Days (every Day a couple of hours) from the first Scans of the Score to the uploaded mp3.

    2) - July the 4th the Score was transformed in raw mididata and I started to setup my DAW-file and Synchron-Strings-Setup

    - July the 7th the first piece "Pezzo in forma di sonatina" was edited and applied to the Synchron-Strings

    - July the 8th the second "Waltz"

    - July the 10th the "Elegy"

    - July the 12th finally the "Finale (Tema  russo)"

    Yes it is all exclusively Synchronstrings. I thought this music would make a good occasion to get familiar with working with the new Library.

    I do understand both point of criticism quite well:

    - already my teacher criticised me often enough for a personal penchant to search musical emotion in some lyrical moments with a bit exaggerated low dynamic introversion I know that might be more alike the german Schumann-romanticism than the more expressive russian emotion. However to shape kind of breathing musical thoughts might likewise make me keep the dynamic range open for further development. And the Cello-Cantilenas seem to me in this piece often enough located in the begin of developing singing passages It is very demanding to keep the voice nevertheless always dominant enough.

    - Yes I still make from project to project my experience with different usage of the available Microphonepositions. You know, that the sectionsize of Synchron-Strings I is the traditional large romantic orchestra. Yes there are great recordings of this piece made by the masters of the large romantic orchestra. On the other hand does the often dense counterpoint and brilliance of this Serenade aswell the fact that most often it is played by Chamberorchestras to search for a more transparent intimate sound. So I started from the "Classic Sur to Stereo-Mix"-Preset but decided to add the close Microphone. I finally added just a bit VSL-Hybrid-Reverb on the masterbus for a little tail. However I consent that there might be some "room" for more room.

    In short: thank you very much for your feedback, it is very helpful, since I myself am still reflecting about what I might improve in the way to work with the new Library. Your reaction help me keeping aware of important aspects.

    @"realism": this is one of my favourit pattern. To ask for "realism" (what means to compare one musical interpretation based on how another previous interpretation sounded like) does in itself degrade what is the only thing which is an absolut sense "real": Our current "reality". Nothing what has ever been before is now no longer "real" but only a subjective souvenir. It is not a matter of any objective fact, but nothing else than the subjective expectation based on one individual Experience. This is of course not unimportant since this gives the resonance of our musical reception. But imho it is nothing more than just this individual and subjective resonance, but not the Reality and of course not any objective measure to judge the current reality.

    If music speaks now to a listener - what ever souvenirs, experiences might help or influence the understanding - what we hear is what we hear right now. If music is able to give the listener any pleasure than this pleasure is real. It is an ambitous challenge and as hard as exciting work enough to try that today with digital means what the musicians before tried with their instruments or with Recordings-Sessions in Studios. But if this attempt will ever make any sense today it is basically just the same as it always has been: Music in all times only makes sense if someone is able to musically enjoy it. That is what counts and the only "reality" a musician is interested in..

    It might help, if the musical results is able to speak to our musical understanding as it is formed by our expieriences  but of course not for being only exactly the same complex waveform, moreover if however it manages to evoke similar musical reactions.

    Most who pretend to judge based on whatever kind of "realism" often enough forgot totally how poor the acoustic reality of former historic perfrmances and their in many aspects always imperfect sonic appearance have been. However it was for their contemporaries enough to inspire a musical understanding (and scarcly would necessarily do still for us in the same way). 

    In short reality is alway imperfect, let us not stick on historic kinds of imperfection but let us try what we might do musical reasonable right now with all imperfectrions left for those after us.
  • C
    C

    Very well said, and, given what you are doing (the music on your web site) and some thoughts you've expressed in the forums, I somewhat expected it.

    The speed of your work is quite asotnishing, however. I should consider improving.

    Cheers,

    Crusoe.