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  • Celtic Warrior

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    I'm coining this one, "epic orchestral...with counterpoint" 😊

    Celtic Warrior - PLAY

    Regards,

    Dave


  • Hi Dave, I enjoyed your piece! I'm not as good as others on this forum in going into details, but I followed the story, kept my interest in what was coming, liked the counterpoint. Thank you for sharing.


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    @MMKA said:

    Hi Dave, I enjoyed your piece! I'm not as good as others on this forum in going into details, but I followed the story, kept my interest in what was coming, liked the counterpoint. Thank you for sharing.
    Thanks so much, MMKA! It's funny you mentioned people's comments and going in to details. Sometimes I wonder if people don't comment on music because they feel they need to show their knowledge. For me, simply knowing that someone listened and enjoyed a piece is reward enough, even if they're not providing Schenkerian analysis 😊 All the best, Dave

  • That piece sounds really good - the mix seems about perfect also.  There were a few additional instruments put iin there subtly weren't there?  


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    @William said:

    That piece sounds really good - the mix seems about perfect also.  There were a few additional instruments put iin there subtly weren't there?  

    Thanks, William.  I made use of almost every library I own (which isn't much compared to most).  In addition to VSL (Synchron and Orchestral) there's a couple of synths, another company's solo violin and piano, and a subtle layer of another company's strings (so Synchron, Orchestral, and another).

    All the best,

    Dave


  • Great piece, and so unusual for you. But it is a masterful performance in all aspects!

    Glad you posted it!

    Jos


  • Thank you, Jos.  I very much appreciate your kind words!  Welcome back...you've been missed on the forum.

    All the best,

    Dave


  • Hi Dave,

    Interesting piece. Very different from your other compositions. The midi-performance and the editing are top notch. 

    I am not sure if you are looking for reactions and critique. If so I can try to give some thoughts if desired.

    Paul


  • Thanks for listening, Paul.  Of course, you are always free to offer your opinions.  While I personally always enjoy others' thoughts, I also have a strong internal sense of what pleases me in my own work and what doesn't.  By the time a piece is "done" and shared, it usually represents the best I'm able to do with it, recognizing that I'll continue to learn and improve. 

    I read on the "other" forum, a guy critiquing Mozart saying that he relies too heavily on dominant seventh chords.  Feedback like that suggests that nobody is untouchable, and that everybody has an opinion. Since composition is so deeply personal, I always temper my criticisms with the thought that, if a composer shared their work on a public forum, they are likely pleased with it (unless they explicitly suggest that they're not).  A completed piece of music is just like a completed painting, or novel.  Once done, it's out there for people to critique, but in the face of scrutiny and criticism, the painting or novel remains the same.  It doesn't get re-painted or re-written.  That said, even if criticism hurts, there's always something to learn from it and apply to future work.

    Just my Thursday morning musings :)

    Dave


  • Hi Dave,

    That is why I asked. Some people are looking for reactions and critique and some are not. Ultimately only the composer can be the final arbiter of course. I believe you mentioned in another post somewhere that you do not even listen to other people's music thinking that it might interfere with your own work. Did I get that right?

    I think famous composers have varied a lot in their openness to critique. Bruckner, for example, was very humble and always open to critique and suggestions even after he gained an audience. He constantly made revisions and changes, sometimes creating real confusion about what he really wanted. The Bruckner story of revisions and changes is quite interesting in my opinion.

    Other composers are very confident and never make revisions or changes, no matter what others might say. I suppose Beethoven would be the ultimate example of supreme self-confidence.

    Personally, my attitude is closer to that of Bruckner, and I always try to keep improving. I even have a composition coach to offer suggestions and critique. I suppose the most important thing is for each of us to keep composing and keep trying to improve.

    Paul


  • I've relaxed my attitude toward listening to others' music in recent times, now that I feel I've sufficiently explored my own voice and ideas without a ton of extraneous influence. That said, while in composition mode, I still avoid listening to anything else during that window of time, unless I know I'll be listening to a style so removed from my own that it will never creep in to my work (think pop, or commonly now, children's entertainers doing robust renditions of "the wheels on the bus" lol!) As for criticism, it is great as long as one remembers that everyone's opinion is formed by their own musical sensibilities, past experiences, widely varying theoretical knowledge, and ultimately, tastes/preferences. As a composer receiving all these outside opinions/influences, I would feel lost/unable to write genuine/sincere music if I attempted to cater to these suggestions. You're right though, in that the way one pursues their work is directly linked to their personality, and I for one, didn't write music for many years simply because I was insecure in my ability to write anything of consequence...in order to begin my journey, I expressly tuned out all the critics, which allowed me to slowly get over my fear of writing and develop a style and sound without worrying about what others thought. Now, of course, I do value the opinions of others, as we're ultimately communicating ideas through music, and I enjoy two way conversations :). But I think we all like what we like and I think it's better to comment on music that we actually enjoy, rather than trying to sharpen our critic's pencils at the expense of music we aren't fond of. That's why, when I hear something that doesn't appeal to me, I simply don't comment on it, because I know that the person that wrote it, does like their work and my criticism would be useless, except to let them know that someone out there doesn't think highly of their work. Cheers! Dave

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    @Acclarion said:

    I read on the "other" forum, a guy critiquing Mozart saying that he relies too heavily on dominant seventh chords.  Feedback like that suggests that nobody is untouchable, and that everybody has an opinion. 

    Hi Dave,

    What Mozart does, uses, fiddles with the traditional classical way of composing, is indeed very personal and at the same time a property of his most individual genius and playfulness. If one would want to criticise Mozart, it's very easy to do so. He continually uses fiths, octaves, reversed voices (second voice on top of the first one and mostly played by the first violin), etc. In a couple of smaller works, he deliberately messes up notes to mock with the bad musicians who commissioned the pieces. Is he therefore a clumsy or ignorant amateur composer? I don't think so. My teacher and great example (Herman Roelstraete) always told me that the tedious study of the classical harmony was necessary to get insight in harmonic structures and movements (sequences). Once you master these things, you can forget all the strict laws and start composing only trusting your good taste, education and ears. The last ones are in my opinion most important. Sticking to 17-18th century traditional ways of composing can be great fun and interesting, but sets limits to present day creativity.

    So criticise on form, use of certain elements in music (or not), style, details,  is rather cheap and useless, unless it contributes to improving one's composition (technique), which is unfortunately seldom the case. I guess you certainly know the feeling after completing a new work: was that the best I could get? Should I post it yet?
    I'm not afraid to say that a lot of my contributions were reopened again and again. Sometimes I made up to 10 new version to correct, to improve the sound, the orchestral settings, the arrangement as to balance and colour... Paul told us that Beethoven didn't care about criticism. I can believe that, but he was definitely his own worst critique: he was never pleased with the (final) result...

    Cheers,

    Jos


  • Haha, your observations about Mozart are spot on and highlight his irreverent sense of humour :)

    I recall a mixed quartet I was part of during university (accordion, clarinet, viola, tuba...playing Handel, Sammartini, Holst, Piazzolla lol).  Anyway, the violist wasn't fond of our coach, who was an incredible clarinetist (actually Becky's teacher).  The violist would always tell me that he wished we had a different coach because he couldn't learn from him.  I asked him to elaborate and he said of our coach:  "he's too damn positive all the time.  I need criticism to improve, not be told what I'm doing well!"  I laughed, but realized how unique we all are in terms of how we learn.  Taking his critical approach, I would have never stayed with music long enough to develop any competence if my teachers weren't kind, understanding, and supportive.  The violist on the other hand, thrived on the negatives:  he didn't want anything sugar coated; he simply wanted to be told what sucked, and how to fix it.  He's an engineer today :)

    The point is, often times, any pursuit which requires a heightened intellectual capacity (composing music is a high order brain activity...see Bloom's Taxonomy of Learning) usually involves individuals that are sensitive, well-learned, and opinionated.  As such, each time they compose, they exercise and stimulate their minds, and hopefully stir their heart and soul as well.  The critic comes along, and in turn, exercises his/her own intellect, often offering contrarian opinions in order to showcase their own knowledge and awareness.  In doing this, it often becomes an ego-driven debate about who can sway others to their own point of view...which ultimately makes it less about the original music in question, and more about the preservation of the critic's own sense of self-worth.

    I'm sure I could have articulated this better, but basically, while criticism often is correct and has its place in highlighting aspects of one's work that could be improved (at least subjectively), it's best offered when sought and hopefully is offered with no alterior motive, but the sincere desire to help another person improve.  

    All the best,

    Dave


  • I immediately react to that criticism with hostility towards the critic.  

    Who is Mozart?  Everyone in the world knows who Mozart is.  (Well, every musician.) And everyone will into the future probably as long as humans exist (before an asteroid sterilizes the surface - a common event in astronomy).  

    But who is this critic?  What is his name? Will anyone know who he is 15 minutes after he stops blabbering on the internet?

    O.K. that wasn't too nice but it is what I think whenever I hear this kind of junk.  Mozart is an absolute genius and to criticize him by saying he overused dominant sevenths is just stupid.


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    Jos


  • Spot on, as usual, Bill.


  • PaulP Paul moved this topic from Orchestration & Composition on