You know I was going to resign from this, but then I realized - I'll be damned if I'm going to be shut down by a bunch of internet trolls.

"I'm happy you are happy, and I wish you lot of satisfaction with your new fairly expensive toy." - fatis12

No, you are not happy, you are sarcastic. To me it is a tool for professionals, not a toy.

"Personally, I respect everyone here who thinks this is the best string library there is. I may disagree with it and explain, why, but I won't degrade their opinions by claiming such things, as you did. By those accusations you do nothing but making a fool of yourself. - fritzflotow

That is hilarious. You respect everyone and then call them "fool."

"Actually I'm sorry for "hijacking" the thread. But indeed, I felt that it was important to relativize what to me seemed like a somewhat misplaced and misleading hymn of praise" - jimmy hellfire

No you're not sorry - you are far too arrogant to be sorry. Also - I ask again - what are your qualifications? You never responded before, and so I must assume - YOU HAVE NONE. Post something of your actual music and then you'll shut me up if it isn't garbage.

"That's not how a forum works. It's a place for discussion, not an echo chamber for whoever started the thread. djw

I never asked for an echo chamber - just some respect instead of totally trashing a great new library by VSL ON THEIR OWN WEBSITE. I think the people who do that are total scum.

"The Goniometer was there to show there was no phase issue while crossfading. And you wrote that "phases are a problem" when crossfading between velocity layers, or did I dream it ?" - javajam

No, you didn't dream anything, you just wrote the most meaningless and boring post I have yet read on this Forum. Tip: Start writing AFTER you have an idea, not BEFORE.

"Unfortunately, this seems common, especially with composers. It is one reason I don't participate at most composer forums anymore. I, for one, was glad to see your enthusiastic post. I am very optimistic about Synchron Strings, and any future Synchron products. There is no reason for people to hijack a positive thread. They could easily start a new one, and should. Enjoy Synchron, I know I am. It has already made its way into my current film score." - dterry

Thank you dterry for a kind and friendly comment. You are clearly a professional with some respect for other professionals.

Basically on this thread I felt like a replay of the end of the original Night of the Living Dead - all the brain-dead zombies are breaking down the door and poring into the house.

That is what happens on the internet - when people no matter what their knowledge or qualifications are all given the same voice. The ultimate fulfillment of Nietzche's warnings about the future of Europe with total democratization.

BTW - did I offend anyone? Like Jimmy Hellfire I am truly, really sorry. If you are not a troll go ahead and post your music to show your expertise, not just your big mouth..

I already asked that and I notice - no one did. Why? THEY DON'T HAVE ANY. Go ahead and contradict me with actual music. That will shut me up - if it's any good.

WILLIAM KERSTEN

www.williamkersten.com

William is hijacking this thread. Not cool.

@William said:

No, you didn't dream anything, you just wrote the most meaningless and boring post I have yet read on this Forum. Tip: Start writing AFTER you have an idea, not BEFORE.

Let me add my two cents. I have had the pleasure of working with great orchestras all over Europe for many years. Surely the object of creating a library like this one is to create the illusion of true high fidelity. This means that the technology dissapears and one is standing in front of an orchestra. VSL to my mind have set the bar concerning this and their Synchron library is I guess the Rolls Royce of string libraries. When it works in its final form with the Synchron player it is simply going to set the standard. People talk about legato a lot. What is legato? To my mind, and I can say at this point I spent 30 years persuing precicely that,  legato is a  singing style called Bel Canto which means that in essence the following note is always more important than the next. This is a huge deal because it has to do with intensity, steadyness of tone breath ( or bow ) control, phrasing  etc. This is where Synchron will win, because the many veloicities allow you do do precicely that. This along with the beautiful piano and flautando samples are something so beautiful. Sure there are hundreds of string libraries out there , all out doing each other with big and bold and lush lines. Music however begins and ends is silence. Beethoven taught us this, and this is something VSL understand more than any other company out there.I am as an artist hugely grateful that Vienna Symphonic library have come so far with this fantastic technology and manage to make it available to people like myself at such a reasonable price. Thaks VSL you guys rock!! 

Well, that escalated quickly ;D

And basically I would like to leave it be, but... Nah, troll will be troll :)

"That is hilarious.  You respect everyone and then call them "fool." "

You can respect a fool, it's not contradictory, at least in my opinion ;)

"No, you are not happy, you are sarcastic. To me it is a tool for professionals, not a toy."

"Also - I ask again - what are your qualifications"

Why are you constantly bringing back "profesionalism" as your weapon of choice? You seem to be (based on your web site) pretty creative, prolific artist. And some of those short snippets on your site sounds really great. Yet your arguments seems to be most dismissive...

"I never asked for an echo chamber - just some respect instead of totally trashing a great new library"

Please, read again everything people here wrote. You might be surprised how much positive aspects we covered. Plus a bit of additional hope for even more. And some trashing too. Sure.

"Thank you dterry for a kind and friendly comment.  You are clearly a professional with some respect for other professionals. "

So you basically like to look in the mirror right? ;)

"I already asked that and I notice - no one did. Why? THEY DON'T HAVE ANY.    Go ahead and contradict me with actual music.  That will shut me up - if it's any good. "

I think no one here said anything bad about your music per se. While music and performance are inseparable, they are not the one. I see here mostly remarks over performance, not composing. If someone says something to me that might improve me as a person, composer, I think of it and then apply or discard. I don't think if he or she is pro enough to teach me.

Still I would like guys from VSL to chime in about our doubts/hopes, but maybe in this thread it would come as a risky thing to do. So I agree that our clear and constant negativity should be channeled in separate thread.

ps.

In my first post I mentioned that my Synchron piece is available to all of you on my orfium (link in description). Feel free to bash it. Maybe I'll learn something valuable.

@William said:

You know I was going to resign from this, but then I realized - I'll be damned if I'm going to  be shut down by a bunch of internet trolls. 

...Basically on this thread I felt like a replay of the end of the original Night of the Living Dead - all the brain-dead zombies are breaking down the door and poring into the house.  

That is what happens on the internet - when people no matter what their knowledge or qualifications are all given the same voice.  The ultimate fulfillment of Nietzche's warnings about the future of Europe with total democratization.  

 BTW - did I offend anyone?

Answer yourself. You didn't answer any of the technical questions and objections, by the way.  Do you really think that going on offending people makes your opinion stronger and you a professional? When you are back from your flame mood, we can be back talking about music and technology. I'm waiting for...

Hi guys,

I've re-read this thread and wish to:

- first, apologize for the tone of some of my words which have been quite rude here and there, I'm usually more friendly than that... Don't know, yesterday must have been my sharp angry day I guess, sorry for having shared that!

- apply some update to my first question which was: why velocity crossfade has only 5 of (presumed) 8 layers. Actually, I checked the patches I was working on a bit more deeply, long legato ones. They have 5 initial layers only (1-40 / 41-60 / 61-80 / 81-100 / 101-127). So this question is obsolete.

- say that the Synchron sounds great to me on first approach, with a nice, clean and rich tone. I can't fully make my opinion about by using it in a real workflow as we have to wait for the full articulations and I guess the expression maps are not available yet. But I think we can expect for something nice and we'll most probably have more to say when the Synchron Player will be released.

- and end up saying the velXfade is a main feature to me. It allows to go to some expressive and/or romantic style, along with with some other CCs (slotX, expression) and final mix. Every library requires work on articulations and expressivity, like a real player has to work on his own performance as well. That's the only way to try to bring it closer to the real thing, or it sounds flat and artificial. It looks like there will be something new with the future player, I've read somewhere the velXfade shouldn't be needed anymore or something like that. So I'm curious and can't wait for...

Best

I think trying to judge it without the full articulations and Synchron player is a bit like trying to judge an elephant while blindfolded by feeling its trunk, so I will wait.

@Ashermusic said:

I think trying to judge it without the full articulations and Synchron player is a bit like trying to judge an elephant while blindfolded by feeling its trunk, so I will wait.

Words of wisdom.

(I quoted this point from the very beginning. Peace and love. 😊 )

@Ashermusic said:

I think trying to judge it without the full articulations and Synchron player is a bit like trying to judge an elephant while blindfolded by feeling its trunk, so I will wait.

If it's really that unrepresentative then I think it shouldn't have been released yet.

This thread is now worthless and nothing but bullshit so I request that it be deleted.  

I apologize not to anyone posting here, but to VSL for getting irritated by buffoons. I was attempting to draw more attention to how great the Synchron Strings are, but this was hijacked and turned into something ugly and worthless.  Something that often happens when dealing with the public.    

@William said:

This thread is now worthless and nothing but bullshit so I request that it be deleted. 

Way to make drama out of hearing some opinions different from your own.

Wanting others' opinions to be deleted if you don't like them is not at all constructive. Especially because some of the feedback here is useful and shouldn't be swept under the rug.

Many owners of this library do not seem happy with the legato transitions and that was expressed in this thread.

@djw said:

Way to make drama out of hearing some opinions different from your own.

Wanting others' opinions to be deleted if you don't like them is not at all constructive. Especially because some of the feedback here is useful and shouldn't be swept under the rug.

Many owners of this library do not seem happy with the legato transitions and that was expressed in this thread.

Your opinions are fine, but post them in a thread that is related to your issue.  This thread wasn't about problems with legato transitons. 

How would you like to have a legato transitions thread filled with rebuttals and counter arguments about how great VSL is, or a tangent talking about VSL percussion?   This should be simple - just stick to the topic.

Problems should be addressed separately where the relevant technical issues can be separated from personal opinions.   Come on folks, show some professionalism here and stop pointing fingers at the OP for simply wanting to talk about the positives of Synchron Strings.  Is the world really this cynical?  What's wrong with just reading, and moving on?  I can't find one positive thread about Synchron Strings.  Now, what is being "swept under the rug"?  Nothing ever prevented you from posting a new thread with a title to put the attention on the problems you want brought to light.  Derailing this thread did nothing but frustrate professional users who only wanted to talk about something besides bugs. 

@dterry said:

Come on folks, show some professionalism here and stop pointing fingers at the OP for simply wanting to talk about the positives of Synchron Strings.

If that was the intention of this thread the title was a spectacularly bad pick. Basically it provoked anyone who has issues with Synchron Strings. 'Let's talk about the good things in Synchron Strings' would have inspired a completely different kind of thread, I am certain. It's a little simplistic to throw around provocations, and then lash out at the ones who bite. And asking to have a thread deleted because you don't like some of the opinions voiced in it - not commendable. William really does come across as neither mannered nor thoughtful, and unfortunately it's not the first thread where that is the case.

@dterry said:

Come on folks, show some professionalism here and stop pointing fingers at the OP for simply wanting to talk about the positives of Synchron Strings.

If that was the intention of this thread the title was a spectacularly bad pick. Basically it provoked anyone who has issues with Synchron Strings. 'Let's talk about the good things in Synchron Strings' would have inspired a completely different kind of thread, I am certain. 

@dterry said:

Come on folks, show some professionalism here and stop pointing fingers at the OP for simply wanting to talk about the positives of Synchron Strings.

If that was the intention of this thread the title was a spectacularly bad pick. Basically it provoked anyone who has issues with Synchron Strings. 'Let's talk about the good things in Synchron Strings' would have inspired a completely different kind of thread, I am certain. 

So what if somebody posts something in a thread where you don't  think it belongs? Is it the job of posters here to monitor, police and object to off topic posts, or to judge if they are off topic or not? No it isn't.

@knechtodawas said:

The only one showing trollish behaviour in this thread is William. Each of his posts makes me crying out loud. Ridiculous...

Exactly ...! It is trolling of such degree that I cannot even bother to answer ... going along with these insecurities about his work a very problematic mix. Anyone might just look at some of his previous contributions to this forum and all of the sudden ... the urge to answer any of his posts just disapears ... 😊

*sigh*

This thread is now closed...