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  4. Delete this troll-hijacked thread
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    @dterry said:

    If you respect others opinions, then let the OP have his thread. I don't see why that would be a problem.
    That's not how a forum works. It's a place for discussion, not an echo chamber for whoever started the thread.

    Right.  Then discuss, but no need to counter someone's opinion just because they offered one you disagree with.   

    This is why forums aren't considered viable places for discussion for many of us - "how a forum works" currently isn't how constructive, respectful dialogue works.  That is one reason I (and most of my colleagues that I know of) don't spend much time on forums anymore;  also simply too busy.  And here I am being reminded why I don't usually post on forums. Back to work.

    Congrats to VSL on Synchron!  Love the stage too - hope to record there at some point. 
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    @dterry said:

    Love the stage too - hope to record there at some point.
    Don't we all? 😛
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    Hi Fabio,

    Thanks for the information. Is this the same Fabio from the GPO community!?

    Regards,
    Richard

     

    @sururick said:

    I just have another question. Is the standard library more than enough since it includes all the articulations? Will I really need all those extra mic positions to make a good sound, or are the standard mics good enough?

    Hi Richard,

    nice to meet you again! Yes I confirm it: yesterday i did quite a bit of experiments with Dimension and Chamber strings and MIR Pro. I wasn't able of replicating the nice sonic balance of Synchron strings default stereo mix, that always sounds better than any of my attempt to mix in MIR Pro old lybraries then finally I consider it a real added value (it was my main doubt buying the lybrary).

    ciao, Fabio.
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    @FabioA said:

    It's a matter of phases problem when you have to crossfade between different samples..

    There is a phase issue when a sample is played twice, not with different samples, or we couldn't listen to 2 violins playing together. There are nice phase effects, not phase problems.
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    @FabioA said:

    It's a matter of phases problem when you have to crossfade between different samples..

    There is a phase issue when a sample is played twice, not with different samples, or we couldn't listen to 2 violins playing together. There are nice phase effects, not phase problems.




    I'm afraid there are much more phase problems in the audio world than you could imagine.

    The one you mentioned is just one exemple of  phase issue that leads to a Comb Filter effect (in fact is probably the only one that is used as a creative effect, and it's even used to create digital reverbs...). 

    Crossfading between velocity layers is a much complex task, and phases are a problem.
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    @FabioA said:

    I'm afraid there are much more phase problems in the audio world than you could imagine.
    The one you mentioned is just one exemple of  phase issue that leads to a Comb Filter effect (in fact is probably the only one that is used as a creative effect, and it's even used to create digital reverbs...). Crossfading between velocity layers is a much complex task, and phases are a problem.


    Thank you for the phase course, buddy... Phase effects are everywhere or we would have one single ear or even we would never use any natural nore artificial reverb. And we would throw all our synths to the trash. And we would never use any recording of the ocean on the beach.

    If crossfading between two layers should be a problem, mixing two similar sources should always be a problem too. Phase effect always occur everywhere in a stereo field. It may be more or less prominent but never a "phase issue" we can encounter with one single sample. And I disagree with your rule "phases are a problem when crossfading between velocity layers", as soon as they're made of different samples.
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    I'm sorry but you started the phae course, buddy :)
    I give up btw. Phases are important for our hearing, indeed, but still Deterios surdus eo nullus, qui renuit audire.
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    @FabioA said:

    Deterios surdus eo nullus, qui renuit audire.


    Sure my ears lost a few high kHz all those years... That said I still can (and like to) hear different opinions as soon as they're argued, that's called debate and knowledge sharing. But when it goes to the pupil game "you did it first". Or ends up with a pejorative latin motto... What do you really know about my ears, btw?
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    @javajam said:

    If crossfading between two layers should be a problem, mixing two similar sources should always be a problem too. Phase effect always occur everywhere in a stereo field. It may be more or less prominent but never a "phase issue" we can encounter with one single sample. And I disagree with your rule "phases are a problem when crossfading between velocity layers", as soon as they're made of different samples.
    Think of it like this: When playing one sample of 8 violins, you hear 8 violins. If you mix (crossfade) this by 50% with another sample of 8 violins, you hear a composite of 16 violins. It's more apparent with crossfading solo strings (where you will suddenly hear 2 instruments when mixing two samples), however the same effect still applies to ensembles. It may not bother you, but it's hard to deny that it's an issue.
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    @djw said:

    Think of it like this: When playing one sample of 8 violins, you hear 8 violins. If you mix (crossfade) this by 50% with another sample of 8 violins, you hear a composite of 16 violins. It's more apparent with crossfading solo strings (where you will suddenly hear 2 instruments when mixing two samples), however the same effect still applies to ensembles. It may not bother you, but it's hard to deny that it's an issue.


    Where does it have anything to see with the phase ?

    And who could say, while crossfading between two layers of a large ochestra : "I heard it, there were double the number of violins in the middle of the note !"... Seriously... Btw what will you do with the SyStrings if you want some divisi ?
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    @Another User said:

    And who could say, while crossfading between two layers of a large ochestra : "I heard it, there were double the number of violins in the middle of the note !"... Seriously...

    If you crossfade from one single sample to another single sample then the impact is the least. But if you don't take such care, you'll stay in between samples, meaning that most of the time you can hear more instruments playing than in the original samples. Of course this has impact on the sound, but like I said, it's a bigger problem with solo instruments.
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    Hi Fabio,

    Thanks for the information. Is this the same Fabio from the GPO community!?

    Regards,
    Richard

     

    [quote=fatis12_24918;268605]

    Yes, "but it was long, long time ago..." (Cit.) 😊
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    @Another User said:

    If you crossfade from one single sample to another single sample then the impact is the least. But if you don't take such care, you'll stay in between samples, meaning that most of the time you can hear more instruments playing than in the original samples. Of course this has impact on the sound, but like I said, it's a bigger problem with solo instruments.


    Please post a demo of what you say, maybe I miss something...

    Here's a demo with SyStrings Violin & Cellos

    I used LSXL Violins & Cellos, with both velocity Xfade and slotX (so double crossfade at the same time, velocity and vib/no vib)... Can you hear any phase issue or instruments number doubling ? Btw, the phase is regularly in between like any single original sample as it can be seen on the Goniometer. MIRacle Synchron Enhance applied.
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    Away from the whole discussion, what beautiful sound is this! Man, man, I can't help, but how beautiful is this!
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    I was not talking about phaser pedals... You just seem out to pick a fight and don't make any effort to understand what I mean. I'll pass.

    On-topic: I hope to hear more impressions of Synchron Strings users.
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    @djw said:

    I was not talking about phaser pedals... You just seem out to pick a fight and don't make any effort to understand what I mean. I'll pass.


    1- I'm not here to "pick a fight". I'm just fed up with people saying anything and everything without any concrete argue.

    2- "Phasing" has everything to see with phaser pedals. And strictly nothing with doubling. Just take the right words, I'll be very pleased to understand then.

    3- Can you just hear the issues you said before on my demo ? Just no, or yes and why and where. It's that simple.
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    @MMKA said:

    Away from the whole discussion, what beautiful sound is this! Man, man, I can't help, but how beautiful is this!


    Thank you MMKA, it's just nothing, two string lines I did to explain what I'm trying to say. I spent some time to edit the velocity and slotX CCs a bit, nothing more 😉

    I think the sound of the Synchron is really great, subtile and rich.
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    @MMKA said:

    Away from the whole discussion, what beautiful sound is this! Man, man, I can't help, but how beautiful is this!


    Thank you MMKA, it's just nothing, two string lines I did to explain what I'm trying to say. I spent some time to edit the velocity and slotX CCs a bit, nothing more 😉

    I think the sound of the Synchron is really great, subtile and rich.


    I really can't get why you have to be so presumptuous, when it's clear you are not a technician at all.
    You have not concrete arguments neither. 
    I don't want to enter the "doubling" argue, even if I can tell you that doubling HAS to do with phasing. Actually it's because of phasing addition and subtraction that you get a richer signal as a result of a voice doubling. 

    Also, this argue started because someone asked why if you turn on Velocity xfade, VI PRO blanks out 2 layers. 
    I said that in this way it was possible for programmers to achieve crossfading between layers. With too many layers it's hard/impossible. 
    I'm not the perfect person to explain why, especially not to you; as I already said, there's none so deaf as those who will not hear.
    The example you posted means nothing. Of course VSL provided us with a library with no issues.
    And let me also say that if your Goniometer would notify phase problems while you play an orchestral library, it wouldn't mean there's a problem with layers crossfading, but probably that the stereo recording of those samples are not mono-compatible. 
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    @Another User said:

    And let me also say that if your Goniometer would notify phase problems while you play an orchestral library, it wouldn't mean there's a problem with layers crossfading, but probably that the stereo recording of those samples are not mono-compatible.


    The Goniometer was there to show there was no phase issue while crossfading. And you wrote that "phases are a problem" when crossfading between velocity layers, or did I dream it ?
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    You know I was going to resign from this, but then I realized - I'll be damned if I'm going to be shut down by a bunch of internet trolls.

    "I'm happy you are happy, and I wish you lot of satisfaction with your new fairly expensive toy." - fatis12

    No, you are not happy, you are sarcastic. To me it is a tool for professionals, not a toy.

    "Personally, I respect everyone here who thinks this is the best string library there is. I may disagree with it and explain, why, but I won't degrade their opinions by claiming such things, as you did. By those accusations you do nothing but making a fool of yourself. - fritzflotow

    That is hilarious. You respect everyone and then call them "fool."

    "Actually I'm sorry for "hijacking" the thread. But indeed, I felt that it was important to relativize what to me seemed like a somewhat misplaced and misleading hymn of praise" - jimmy hellfire

    No you're not sorry - you are far too arrogant to be sorry. Also - I ask again - what are your qualifications? You never responded before, and so I must assume - YOU HAVE NONE. Post something of your actual music and then you'll shut me up if it isn't garbage.

    "That's not how a forum works. It's a place for discussion, not an echo chamber for whoever started the thread. djw

    I never asked for an echo chamber - just some respect instead of totally trashing a great new library by VSL ON THEIR OWN WEBSITE. I think the people who do that are total scum.

    "The Goniometer was there to show there was no phase issue while crossfading. And you wrote that "phases are a problem" when crossfading between velocity layers, or did I dream it ?" - javajam

    No, you didn't dream anything, you just wrote the most meaningless and boring post I have yet read on this Forum. Tip: Start writing AFTER you have an idea, not BEFORE.

    "Unfortunately, this seems common, especially with composers. It is one reason I don't participate at most composer forums anymore. I, for one, was glad to see your enthusiastic post. I am very optimistic about Synchron Strings, and any future Synchron products. There is no reason for people to hijack a positive thread. They could easily start a new one, and should. Enjoy Synchron, I know I am. It has already made its way into my current film score." - dterry

    Thank you dterry for a kind and friendly comment. You are clearly a professional with some respect for other professionals.

    Basically on this thread I felt like a replay of the end of the original Night of the Living Dead - all the brain-dead zombies are breaking down the door and poring into the house.

    That is what happens on the internet - when people no matter what their knowledge or qualifications are all given the same voice. The ultimate fulfillment of Nietzche's warnings about the future of Europe with total democratization.

    BTW - did I offend anyone? Like Jimmy Hellfire I am truly, really sorry. If you are not a troll go ahead and post your music to show your expertise, not just your big mouth..

    I already asked that and I notice - no one did. Why? THEY DON'T HAVE ANY. Go ahead and contradict me with actual music. That will shut me up - if it's any good.

    WILLIAM KERSTEN

    www.williamkersten.com